Celtic Heroes

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Re: Question to admins about Beta

#51
Difinitus wrote:There is currently a beta test with a small focus group to test new features for the upcoming content update. Due to the scope of the test, we were not able to extend an invitation to everyone and reached out to some players based on criteria we felt best suited the current situation. There is no point in guessing what those variables are. If we didn't reach out to you, we may still contact you should we chose to increase the scope of the current or future tests.

If you are interested in increasing the likelihood of being selected for focus tests like these, then interacting with the community on the forums and having a positive influence with players in game is your best bet.

We hope to release the update ASAP, as we've gotten some really good feedback from our testers already. I'll be able to share more info once we're more confident with the changes.

Thanks for your understanding! :)


VR so there is NO conflict of interest

you should name each player and there server currently in closed beta.

and point out why you individually chose these players for other players to understand your choices.

community would then feel more comfortable and make VR look more transparent...which would create a positive vibe.

Re: Question to admins about Beta

#52
Lawsdog222 wrote:
Difinitus wrote:There is currently a beta test with a small focus group to test new features for the upcoming content update. Due to the scope of the test, we were not able to extend an invitation to everyone and reached out to some players based on criteria we felt best suited the current situation. There is no point in guessing what those variables are. If we didn't reach out to you, we may still contact you should we chose to increase the scope of the current or future tests.

If you are interested in increasing the likelihood of being selected for focus tests like these, then interacting with the community on the forums and having a positive influence with players in game is your best bet.

We hope to release the update ASAP, as we've gotten some really good feedback from our testers already. I'll be able to share more info once we're more confident with the changes.

Thanks for your understanding! :)


VR so there is NO conflict of interest

you should name each player and there server currently in closed beta.

and point out why you individually chose these players for other players to understand your choices.

community would then feel more comfortable and make VR look more transparent...which would create a positive vibe.

Uhhh no. I feel like that'd amplify the "conflict of interest" in the opposite manner;
"Closed" beta implies intentionally keeping back some info that is likely to change, there's going to be an open beta later where progression will be revealed, we can be patient.
Additionally, releasing names/reasoning for choosing people will only cause friction: "why was X chosen over me?!?", as well as retroactive blame: "what morons let this trash make it to open beta?!?", which would make the closed beta group (relatively small group) self-conscious as to their partial responsibility: "I would say that needs to be changed, but people might blame me for it if it happens, so I'll just let it happen..."
Transparency of progress is good (see above from Diff), transparency of the process would likely be messy and counter-productive. -1

Edit: Whatever the formula is, it's based entirely upon their motives which means they get what they want (thus it's intrinsically "unfair" to our perspective lol)
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Re: Question to admins about Beta

#53
I think there seems to be a missunderstanding about the difference between beta testing bugs, and beta testing features, as well as how important various qualities are for each.
When it comes to testing bugs, the only obvious requirements are the ability to be very detailed in reports, as well as plenty of time and dedication to find issues in the game.
When it comes to testing features, "player experience" is a very broad term, and it's never as simple as "I've played longer than you" or "I have higher leveled characters than you". It depends on what needs to be tested at the stage in the beta. If VR is testing the new raid, I'd guess that they would probably want players with a lot of experience planning and organizing raids, as well as trying different tactics. However, if the point of the beta is to test a new feature, there's no point in finding people with those skills and experiences. All you'd really need is people who are dedicated, have plenty of time, and are detailed enough to test any possible issues.


Lawsdog222 wrote:
Difinitus wrote:There is currently a beta test with a small focus group to test new features for the upcoming content update. Due to the scope of the test, we were not able to extend an invitation to everyone and reached out to some players based on criteria we felt best suited the current situation. There is no point in guessing what those variables are. If we didn't reach out to you, we may still contact you should we chose to increase the scope of the current or future tests.

If you are interested in increasing the likelihood of being selected for focus tests like these, then interacting with the community on the forums and having a positive influence with players in game is your best bet.

We hope to release the update ASAP, as we've gotten some really good feedback from our testers already. I'll be able to share more info once we're more confident with the changes.

Thanks for your understanding! :)


VR so there is NO conflict of interest

you should name each player and there server currently in closed beta.

and point out why you individually chose these players for other players to understand your choices.

community would then feel more comfortable and make VR look more transparent...which would create a positive vibe.


I really don't think there's any point in VR giving that information, if anything, that will lead to a lot more issues. Sharing player names only makes them possible targets for in-game harassment by players who are upset about not being selected for the beta. The reason why it was done quietly was to prevent information from leaking out. Obviously that's getting harder to do as more people are posting here, releasing any information about players would make it harder for them to keep things secret.

There's no need for players to understand VR's choices, all that will lead to is people complaining that "I feel like I fit in those specifications, so why was X picked but not me". VR hand picked people they knew would give good quality feedback on specific things and would be trustworthy, and they also wanted a small group. Just because they didn't pick you does not mean that you do not match those qualities...all it means is that..well, they didn't pick you, maybe they simply hit their target player count before they got to you. Transparency is a horrible idea when it comes to closed beta testing.

Regardless, I get the feeling that players who are only here complaining about not being picked are making themselves excellent candidates for the blacklist for upcoming betas :lol:


*Mind you beat me to it :( *
Eragon123 - lvl 220 ranger
Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
Sulis
Have questions about anything? PM me!
Go Team #WorldSkillsUSA!
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Check out the fan-made Celtic Heroes Database: celticheroesdb.com!

Re: Question to admins about Beta

#54
Meck wrote:
Difinitus wrote:There is currently a beta test with a small focus group to test new features for the upcoming content update. Due to the scope of the test, we were not able to extend an invitation to everyone and reached out to some players based on criteria we felt best suited the current situation. There is no point in guessing what those variables are. If we didn't reach out to you, we may still contact you should we chose to increase the scope of the current or future tests.

If you are interested in increasing the likelihood of being selected for focus tests like these, then interacting with the community on the forums and having a positive influence with players in game is your best bet.

We hope to release the update ASAP, as we've gotten some really good feedback from our testers already. I'll be able to share more info once we're more confident with the changes.

Thanks for your understanding! :)

Understandable on that side but not everyone has time or would want to be active on the forums as there not a lot going on, most people contribute ingame to bossing constantly and testing stratergies to find the best one for their clans.

If you don’t have time for forums now how would you have time for a few hours a day of beta tests combined with a few hours spent on line group/forums discussing content and working on changes?

Beta is a super time intensive process and most of us during the heat of it spend 5+ hours on beta related stuff every day. At the same time many of us are still active on live game and on the forums. Community involvement on forums is an indicator to how willing and able players are to go beyond just logging for bosses in live and doing extra work for the community.
While it would be cool if every able player could be in beta, that’s unrealistic and it’s better to go for those only who actually have the time and ability to do it.
Also most of the beta stuff goes on in the closed forum group, not online, as it’s mostly discussion on what we’ve seen so player activity on forums is kinda like a resume as to how good you are at using the formulas I suppose.
Gwydion - Guardian of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 224 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
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CD Swapping since 2016

Re: Question to admins about Beta

#55
Mind wrote:
Lawsdog222 wrote:
Difinitus wrote:There is currently a beta test with a small focus group to test new features for the upcoming content update. Due to the scope of the test, we were not able to extend an invitation to everyone and reached out to some players based on criteria we felt best suited the current situation. There is no point in guessing what those variables are. If we didn't reach out to you, we may still contact you should we chose to increase the scope of the current or future tests.

If you are interested in increasing the likelihood of being selected for focus tests like these, then interacting with the community on the forums and having a positive influence with players in game is your best bet.

We hope to release the update ASAP, as we've gotten some really good feedback from our testers already. I'll be able to share more info once we're more confident with the changes.

Thanks for your understanding! :)


VR so there is NO conflict of interest

you should name each player and there server currently in closed beta.

and point out why you individually chose these players for other players to understand your choices.

community would then feel more comfortable and make VR look more transparent...which would create a positive vibe.

Uhhh no. I feel like that'd amplify the "conflict of interest" in the opposite manner;
"Closed" beta implies intentionally keeping back some info that is likely to change, there's going to be an open beta later where progression will be revealed, we can be patient.
Additionally, releasing names/reasoning for choosing people will only cause friction: "why was X chosen over me?!?", as well as retroactive blame: "what morons let this trash make it to open beta?!?", which would make the closed beta group (relatively small group) self-conscious as to their partial responsibility: "I would say that needs to be changed, but people might blame me for it if it happens, so I'll just let it happen..."
Transparency of progress is good (see above from Diff), transparency of the process would likely be messy and counter-productive. -1

Edit: Whatever the formula is, it's based entirely upon their motives which means they get what they want (thus it's intrinsically "unfair" to our perspective lol)


If they can’t deal with those issues above they shouldn’t be in it anyways.
Last edited by Lawsdog222 on Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Question to admins about Beta

#56
Eragon123 wrote:I think there seems to be a missunderstanding about the difference between beta testing bugs, and beta testing features, as well as how important various qualities are for each.
When it comes to testing bugs, the only obvious requirements are the ability to be very detailed in reports, as well as plenty of time and dedication to find issues in the game.
When it comes to testing features, "player experience" is a very broad term, and it's never as simple as "I've played longer than you" or "I have higher leveled characters than you". It depends on what needs to be tested at the stage in the beta. If VR is testing the new raid, I'd guess that they would probably want players with a lot of experience planning and organizing raids, as well as trying different tactics. However, if the point of the beta is to test a new feature, there's no point in finding people with those skills and experiences. All you'd really need is people who are dedicated, have plenty of time, and are detailed enough to test any possible issues.


Lawsdog222 wrote:
Difinitus wrote:There is currently a beta test with a small focus group to test new features for the upcoming content update. Due to the scope of the test, we were not able to extend an invitation to everyone and reached out to some players based on criteria we felt best suited the current situation. There is no point in guessing what those variables are. If we didn't reach out to you, we may still contact you should we chose to increase the scope of the current or future tests.

If you are interested in increasing the likelihood of being selected for focus tests like these, then interacting with the community on the forums and having a positive influence with players in game is your best bet.

We hope to release the update ASAP, as we've gotten some really good feedback from our testers already. I'll be able to share more info once we're more confident with the changes.

Thanks for your understanding! :)


VR so there is NO conflict of interest

you should name each player and there server currently in closed beta.

and point out why you individually chose these players for other players to understand your choices.

community would then feel more comfortable and make VR look more transparent...which would create a positive vibe.


I really don't think there's any point in VR giving that information, if anything, that will lead to a lot more issues. Sharing player names only makes them possible targets for in-game harassment by players who are upset about not being selected for the beta. The reason why it was done quietly was to prevent information from leaking out. Obviously that's getting harder to do as more people are posting here, releasing any information about players would make it harder for them to keep things secret.

There's no need for players to understand VR's choices, all that will lead to is people complaining that "I feel like I fit in those specifications, so why was X picked but not me". VR hand picked people they knew would give good quality feedback on specific things and would be trustworthy, and they also wanted a small group. Just because they didn't pick you does not mean that you do not match those qualities...all it means is that..well, they didn't pick you, maybe they simply hit their target player count before they got to you. Transparency is a horrible idea when it comes to closed beta testing.

Regardless, I get the feeling that players who are only here complaining about not being picked are making themselves excellent candidates for the blacklist for upcoming betas :lol:


*Mind you beat me to it :( *


completely wrong thought process.

Re: Question to admins about Beta

#57
Lawsdog222 wrote:If they can’t deal with those issues above they shouldn’t be in it anyways.

I completely disagree, there is no reason to subject them to those issues. Testers should never have to deal with those issues, so therefore they don't need to be able to deal with them.
The point of a beta is solely to test the content...not to deal with unnecessary and pointless issues. I literally cannot think of a single benefit of releasing player names or even just servers. All the scenarios I'm coming up with are negative and lead to more drama and people getting upset. If you have any valid reasons for wanting that information, please post them.


Lawsdog222 wrote:
Eragon123 wrote:
completely wrong thought process.

Please explain. I know I make mistakes, but I'm not gonna learn if I don't get told what they are :)
Eragon123 - lvl 220 ranger
Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
Sulis
Have questions about anything? PM me!
Go Team #WorldSkillsUSA!
Rabid Glitter Squirrel Wrangler
Harbinger of cold hard logic and reason.

Check out the fan-made Celtic Heroes Database: celticheroesdb.com!

Re: Question to admins about Beta

#58
Mind wrote:
Lawsdog222 wrote:
Difinitus wrote:There is currently a beta test with a small focus group to test new features for the upcoming content update. Due to the scope of the test, we were not able to extend an invitation to everyone and reached out to some players based on criteria we felt best suited the current situation. There is no point in guessing what those variables are. If we didn't reach out to you, we may still contact you should we chose to increase the scope of the current or future tests.

If you are interested in increasing the likelihood of being selected for focus tests like these, then interacting with the community on the forums and having a positive influence with players in game is your best bet.

We hope to release the update ASAP, as we've gotten some really good feedback from our testers already. I'll be able to share more info once we're more confident with the changes.

Thanks for your understanding! :)


VR so there is NO conflict of interest

you should name each player and there server currently in closed beta.

and point out why you individually chose these players for other players to understand your choices.

community would then feel more comfortable and make VR look more transparent...which would create a positive vibe.

Uhhh no. I feel like that'd amplify the "conflict of interest" in the opposite manner;
"Closed" beta implies intentionally keeping back some info that is likely to change, there's going to be an open beta later where progression will be revealed, we can be patient.
Additionally, releasing names/reasoning for choosing people will only cause friction: "why was X chosen over me?!?", as well as retroactive blame: "what morons let this trash make it to open beta?!?", which would make the closed beta group (relatively small group) self-conscious as to their partial responsibility: "I would say that needs to be changed, but people might blame me for it if it happens, so I'll just let it happen..."
Transparency of progress is good (see above from Diff), transparency of the process would likely be messy and counter-productive. -1

Edit: Whatever the formula is, it's based entirely upon their motives which means they get what they want (thus it's intrinsically "unfair" to our perspective lol)

Actually VR do not aim to include an open beta, they plan to make the update live once closed beta and bugs have been fixed
Rogue - Mecki Level 226
Rogue - Creativity Level 210
Warrior - Private Level 215
Ranger - Level 180+
Worlds - Mabon, Epona and rhiannon

Re: Question to admins about Beta

#59
bob the mage wrote:
Meck wrote:
Difinitus wrote:There is currently a beta test with a small focus group to test new features for the upcoming content update. Due to the scope of the test, we were not able to extend an invitation to everyone and reached out to some players based on criteria we felt best suited the current situation. There is no point in guessing what those variables are. If we didn't reach out to you, we may still contact you should we chose to increase the scope of the current or future tests.

If you are interested in increasing the likelihood of being selected for focus tests like these, then interacting with the community on the forums and having a positive influence with players in game is your best bet.

We hope to release the update ASAP, as we've gotten some really good feedback from our testers already. I'll be able to share more info once we're more confident with the changes.

Thanks for your understanding! :)

Understandable on that side but not everyone has time or would want to be active on the forums as there not a lot going on, most people contribute ingame to bossing constantly and testing stratergies to find the best one for their clans.

If you don’t have time for forums now how would you have time for a few hours a day of beta tests combined with a few hours spent on line group/forums discussing content and working on changes?

Beta is a super time intensive process and most of us during the heat of it spend 5+ hours on beta related stuff every day. At the same time many of us are still active on live game and on the forums. Community involvement on forums is an indicator to how willing and able players are to go beyond just logging for bosses in live and doing extra work for the community.
While it would be cool if every able player could be in beta, that’s unrealistic and it’s better to go for those only who actually have the time and ability to do it.
Also most of the beta stuff goes on in the closed forum group, not online, as it’s mostly discussion on what we’ve seen so player activity on forums is kinda like a resume as to how good you are at using the formulas I suppose.

Being active on the forums in general is completely different to being active on the beta test forum pages, for starters the pages on the beta forum are meant for feedback and pointing out bugs to help VR while general forums are usually used for general discussion, if I was place in a beta forum then id conteibute on what I see and how hard or easy I think the boss is along with anything needs to be nerfed or buffed. When it comes to playing the game I usually spend 14+ hours a day playing the game, killing normal bosses and world bosses. So I put more effort into the game and helping my clan compared to being active on the forums, but thats probs why Ive been the best rogue in my server on multiple occassions and well known by other rogues on other servers before my break from the game (currently back playing). When it comes to playing both in the live game and beta I can easily just dual log and keep times on the live game while playing on the beta.
Just to add I wouldnt say 5+ hours is needed on beta, as you would know bossing isnt tested every hour, there will be a set time for people to log along with assuming that there will be a 20-40min testing period on the boss to gain information. Apart from that people would test every day things in the game to make sure theres no bugs included, making it repetitive testing, this can be done for an hour a day for the whole of beta and would still be good enough to get results.
Also although I can agree that being active on the forums can help at times I wouldnt say it shows how good and willing a player is. Thats like saying someone who puts in 18hours a day into a game but doesnt contribute on the forums isnt as willing as a player who plays a few hours a day in game and is always active on the forums. Id much prefer someone active on the live game in my clan putting in the effort and helping ppl in the clan than having someone who stays on the forums for the most part.

Also I do know how a beta test goes as I have been in multiple in the past, I put 14hrs or more into the live game most days and would pass that onto beta tests when I am in them, all of the work is done ingame to find bugs and test everything available and then it is put into the beta forums for the devs to read and decide what they want to do with that information. I wouldnt say the forums is the main part of beta, they both go hand in hand, when it comes to the discussions in the closed beta forums youll have topics with bugs listed, along with topics from devs to discuss possible nerfs, buffs and things to be added into the live game, all of which can be done daily without spending a lot of time doing so, send a message in the topic, check back every 20mins, easy as that. For those with a pc they can easily have the forums open on their pc while playing in beta and in the live game. I wouldnt say discussing on the forums is difficult as its the easist thing to do in this game. Players in beta imo need knowledge on how to come up with strats for bosses, along with being able to kill all end game content and to contribute with their clannies which goes hand in hand with helping the devs in beta with what they need testing.
And to back this up.. those who have killed every boss know their strats, those who come up with the strats have the knowledge and experience to find out how the current beta bosses can be killed, going through each possible strat which will ultimately bring out bugs in the bosses mechanics, those bugs get fixed before hand instead of being found in the live game if they dont get found in the beta.

And to sum up how you feel that every closed beta applicant should have being active on the forums in their resume id have to greatly disagree, people can be inactive on the forums but very active in game and ehen closed beta occurs become active also in the beta forum as they want to contribute and do their part, so atleast take into account the types of people that are like that as we also want to help the game progress even if we dont come onto the forums 24/7, plus most things said on the forums isnt exactly useful information, the only useful information is in what the devs post which we still check.
Rogue - Mecki Level 226
Rogue - Creativity Level 210
Warrior - Private Level 215
Ranger - Level 180+
Worlds - Mabon, Epona and rhiannon

Re: Question to admins about Beta

#60
Meck wrote:
bob the mage wrote:
Meck wrote:Understandable on that side but not everyone has time or would want to be active on the forums as there not a lot going on, most people contribute ingame to bossing constantly and testing stratergies to find the best one for their clans.

If you don’t have time for forums now how would you have time for a few hours a day of beta tests combined with a few hours spent on line group/forums discussing content and working on changes?

Beta is a super time intensive process and most of us during the heat of it spend 5+ hours on beta related stuff every day. At the same time many of us are still active on live game and on the forums. Community involvement on forums is an indicator to how willing and able players are to go beyond just logging for bosses in live and doing extra work for the community.
While it would be cool if every able player could be in beta, that’s unrealistic and it’s better to go for those only who actually have the time and ability to do it.
Also most of the beta stuff goes on in the closed forum group, not online, as it’s mostly discussion on what we’ve seen so player activity on forums is kinda like a resume as to how good you are at using the formulas I suppose.

Being active on the forums in general is completely different to being active on the beta test forum pages, for starters the pages on the beta forum are meant for feedback and pointing out bugs to help VR while general forums are usually used for general discussion, if I was place in a beta forum then id conteibute on what I see and how hard or easy I think the boss is along with anything needs to be nerfed or buffed. When it comes to playing the game I usually spend 14+ hours a day playing the game, killing normal bosses and world bosses. So I put more effort into the game and helping my clan compared to being active on the forums, but thats probs why Ive been the best rogue in my server on multiple occassions and well known by other rogues on other servers before my break from the game (currently back playing). When it comes to playing both in the live game and beta I can easily just dual log and keep times on the live game while playing on the beta.
Just to add I wouldnt say 5+ hours is needed on beta, as you would know bossing isnt tested every hour, there will be a set time for people to log along with assuming that there will be a 20-40min testing period on the boss to gain information. Apart from that people would test every day things in the game to make sure theres no bugs included, making it repetitive testing, this can be done for an hour a day for the whole of beta and would still be good enough to get results.
Also although I can agree that being active on the forums can help at times I wouldnt say it shows how good and willing a player is. Thats like saying someone who puts in 18hours a day into a game but doesnt contribute on the forums isnt as willing as a player who plays a few hours a day in game and is always active on the forums. Id much prefer someone active on the live game in my clan putting in the effort and helping ppl in the clan than having someone who stays on the forums for the most part.

Also I do know how a beta test goes as I have been in multiple in the past, I put 14hrs or more into the live game most days and would pass that onto beta tests when I am in them, all of the work is done ingame to find bugs and test everything available and then it is put into the beta forums for the devs to read and decide what they want to do with that information. I wouldnt say the forums is the main part of beta, they both go hand in hand, when it comes to the discussions in the closed beta forums youll have topics with bugs listed, along with topics from devs to discuss possible nerfs, buffs and things to be added into the live game, all of which can be done daily without spending a lot of time doing so, send a message in the topic, check back every 20mins, easy as that. For those with a pc they can easily have the forums open on their pc while playing in beta and in the live game. I wouldnt say discussing on the forums is difficult as its the easist thing to do in this game. Players in beta imo need knowledge on how to come up with strats for bosses, along with being able to kill all end game content and to contribute with their clannies which goes hand in hand with helping the devs in beta with what they need testing.
And to back this up.. those who have killed every boss know their strats, those who come up with the strats have the knowledge and experience to find out how the current beta bosses can be killed, going through each possible strat which will ultimately bring out bugs in the bosses mechanics, those bugs get fixed before hand instead of being found in the live game if they dont get found in the beta.

And to sum up how you feel that every closed beta applicant should have being active on the forums in their resume id have to greatly disagree, people can be inactive on the forums but very active in game and ehen closed beta occurs become active also in the beta forum as they want to contribute and do their part, so atleast take into account the types of people that are like that as we also want to help the game progress even if we dont come onto the forums 24/7, plus most things said on the forums isnt exactly useful information, the only useful information is in what the devs post which we still check.

Forums are about assisting the community and participating in topical discussions about the game.
Beta is about assisting the community and providing feedback on the developers implementing that content into the game.
While being hyper active on the forums isn’t necessary to being able to know what you want from a boss, it is necessary to having an idea of what the community wants as well as the developers stances on certain aspects of game play.

Plenty in closed beta aren’t the most active on the forums, but when they are on the forums it’s obvious they know what’s going on community and game wise.
VR needs some way to filter out potential candidates, and it’s unreasonable to ask them to spend time hunting down every person on their servers to see what kind of player they are.
Forums are how they communicate with the community and how we communicate right back to them, and as such it works fairly well as a litmus test for how people will conduct themselves and to a players abilities in beta.

Being good at the game is great, but if you can’t put it into words and math to explain why new content is good as is or needs fixing, why a boss is balanced or not, why a raid needs tweaking because of characteristic x then it doesn’t matter.
Not saying you are or aren’t capable of this, but we don’t know and nor could VR because you don’t put it into words on the forums.



If you are an amazing artist, the best in the world. Yet you keep all your artwork to yourself locked in a safe in your basement, then you have no right to complain when the world crowns another as a top tier artist even though you are better.
Only way they can know who to get for beta is based on who they see and what they see *shrug*
Gwydion - Guardian of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 224 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

CD Swapping since 2016

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