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Re: Clan Owned Gear

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:20 pm
by Elfylolz
Criminal wrote:
Elfylolz wrote:
Criminal wrote:Usually these threads are to present how perfect Epona is..... Well it isnt, lets admit it, epona has rules too, not all rules are clean of bias as the system behind the rolls is still voting, and there is no rolls system that isnt also a voting system, and thats just how it is.

Theres no perfect system, once ppl get that mindset clear they'll be far more understanding of one another. Ppl say Epona is perfect so all dom clans must be some greedy monsters whom are after the players to make their game miserable, and clans whom arent rolls and think their system as perfect think Epona is made of players who never got along under the authority of others due selfishness and greed and they want to be able to play only for themselves. Both are extreme mindsets that might have some true cases, Im sure some dom clans or rival clans are made out of greed or desire to affect badly on others on the game, although not fully, and Im sure some in Epona are ex-dom clan players who rather didnt get along with the authority of that clan and whatever other clans they were in as they were having selfish mindsets and cared for themselves, but these dont represent neither sides and thats what ppl need to understand.

If ppl truly think their system is perfect, thats their first flaw and most major one, because if u never acknowledge ur own flaws u will never be able to stop them from affecting u and everyone else. Epona isnt perfect, it never was, it never will be. It had many issues, it still does, it will always have. If ppl get that "Epona is perfect" out of their mindset they'll stop having to chase other servers and constantly telling them that they're falling downwards/they're greedy/whatever other insult comes from players who were part of dom clans themselves and just didnt like it and are clearly biased.

Its fine to discuss about the logic standing behind rules, but just because we discuss it still doesnt mean that the statement "If you dont like the rules, dont join them" doesnt stand. Everyone is required to read the rules upon joining and agreeing to them, if you treat them like Terms of Service then just dont get surprised when u get punished, its really simple, and VR/OTM will not act differently than dom clans would with their rules.

"When you get punished" do you not agree that following someone around and ruining their rep on other servers is excessive? Seen it happen firsthand but I agree not all Dom clans do it

That is not what I consider a punishment by the clan, thats just personal issues of players who cant accept the gear is gone, even if that player would be me. By punished I mean that if ur selling gear, dont expect the clan to accept u back or ever speak good of u when u xfer out / go to other clans and they want background checks on u. Ive seen ppl angry on me that I didnt speak good of them to other servers, while they werent good to us so why would I? And by get punished I mean getting kicked if u hoard, getting banned from drops temporarily / demoted if u hoarded (and returned, if u didnt return u would get kicked)... So on. These are fair punishments, when ur out of the clan all the clan can do is not chase u because thats wasted effort, but also not bother to speak good of u when asked.

Dont forget that reputation means a lot i nthis game, and if ur known as hoarder who sold clan gear AGAINST clan rules (which in that server, u will likely be considered a scammer too because u broke clan rules and abused clan banks and other players who worked hard for personal profits, as per their rules, so Id say its fair if they classified u as such), and if u want to xfer out I assume u want ur reputation to be good as well, so dont expect players to speak good of u if u chose to be bad to them.

I think this is more than fair, just not what I've seen whole clans do in other occasions, glad you're understanding of the middle ground where it's fine, I have a rep of an a hole but I'm really trusted lol so I feel this, never had to worry about my name being associated with the word scammed because anyone who tried always got shut down fast and having a good rep in that way is huge in this game

Re: Clan Owned Gear

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:24 pm
by Soccer
Curry30423 wrote:Imo u can’t compare earning gear in game with earning $ irl. In real life you work for a company and you do your part to earn your money. It’s different in a game with a clan because your all working equally the same for the same gear. You can’t solo gele prot bt etc etc, it’s a clans kill so it’s the clans drops that people can use. At the end of the day, it’s the clans item since you all worked collectively to get them. That’s just my opinion


Well McDonald's upper management can't run the 1000s of restaurants they own, so it's employees should also return all their salaries when they quit?

Just like for McDonald's, clans need their members and the members need the clans.

From what I understand, the purpose of the points system is so that people are awarded for the amount of work they put in since not everyone works as hard. So that argument that everyone works equally for the same gear doesn't make sense.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:25 pm
by rameyrat
Furyion wrote:If you put in work for the clan, you deserve drops to call your own. Dom clans will usually try to say something along the lines of the bosses were killed by the group, not you. You are part of the group though, and you likely did the same amount of work as any other person at the fights you attended. Work deserves pay, that's the bottom line. You don't join endgame clans just to join them, we all know why the people are there. I have no sympathy for clans when they cry wolf about people leaving with "their gear", only anger.

But if you didn't put in work, took gear from a clan and left, that's where it gets tricky. If you do this to a clan that isn't doing anything wrong, and didn't help them out at all, then yeah that's pretty wrong. If it is a rival clan, I have mixed feelings. And if it's an evil dom clan, and you are taking the gear back to a clan to fight them I support you 100%. It's not like they were willingly going to let you get the gear anyway.

Personally, I always hated the idea of clans, and have only ever joined them for pure business purposes only. It is just a blue name over your head, with a dedicated chat, but people get so bent up over it and think they can rule the world because of it.

+1

I think that when you receive an upgrade, you should be willing to help out your clan and pass your lesser item down the line to a fellow clannie that can use it. I do not believe that people should hoard drops they don't need and use on a regular basis. Those should go back to the clan.

But if/when you leave, I don't think you should be stripped of the gear you are actually using at the time. Since you earned that gear, bought it with dkp, whatever, that should stay on your toon. What if you've spent years working to build your toon up the best you can and then leave the clan for whatever reason? All that work just gets erased and you get stripped naked? I don't think so.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:37 pm
by Criminal
I think when leaving, no one truly cares if u left with clan gear or not. Lets admit it, whether u care or not, its gone, give it up. But its likely that someone will not think highly/speak highly of u to those who want ur background check. Ofc if u just left and didnt return gear... eh.. no one cares. If u joined to take gear purposely... ppl wil lcare more. If u joined to make profit and sold gear, gg too ez if u want ur reputation to be well established.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:44 pm
by Zkills
Criminal wrote:I think when leaving, no one truly cares if u left with clan gear or not. Lets admit it, whether u care or not, its gone, give it up. But its likely that someone will not think highly/speak highly of u to those who want ur background check. Ofc if u just left and didnt return gear... eh.. no one cares. If u joined to take gear purposely... ppl wil lcare more. If u joined to make profit and sold gear, gg too ez if u want ur reputation to be well established.

Then again, if someone joins and is earning gear then clearly they worked for that gear and gave their services to the clan. The argument of “they just joined to take gear” doesn’t work anymore because of dkp. If they sell then they sell it. They clearly earned it anyways

Re: Clan Owned Gear

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:42 pm
by Criminal
Zkills wrote:
Criminal wrote:I think when leaving, no one truly cares if u left with clan gear or not. Lets admit it, whether u care or not, its gone, give it up. But its likely that someone will not think highly/speak highly of u to those who want ur background check. Ofc if u just left and didnt return gear... eh.. no one cares. If u joined to take gear purposely... ppl wil lcare more. If u joined to make profit and sold gear, gg too ez if u want ur reputation to be well established.

Then again, if someone joins and is earning gear then clearly they worked for that gear and gave their services to the clan. The argument of “they just joined to take gear” doesn’t work anymore because of dkp. If they sell then they sell it. They clearly earned it anyways

I think if someone joined solely to gain gear for profit, then ppl will eventually find it out, and if they dont then good for him. If its found out, it'll only tell about the players' intentions, and then leave it for each clan and server to decide what they think of said player.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:57 pm
by tayilern
Criminal wrote:
Zkills wrote:
Criminal wrote:I think when leaving, no one truly cares if u left with clan gear or not. Lets admit it, whether u care or not, its gone, give it up. But its likely that someone will not think highly/speak highly of u to those who want ur background check. Ofc if u just left and didnt return gear... eh.. no one cares. If u joined to take gear purposely... ppl wil lcare more. If u joined to make profit and sold gear, gg too ez if u want ur reputation to be well established.

Then again, if someone joins and is earning gear then clearly they worked for that gear and gave their services to the clan. The argument of “they just joined to take gear” doesn’t work anymore because of dkp. If they sell then they sell it. They clearly earned it anyways

I think if someone joined solely to gain gear for profit, then ppl will eventually find it out, and if they dont then good for him. If its found out, it'll only tell about the players' intentions, and then leave it for each clan and server to decide what they think of said player.


Most players who leave clans did not join purely for profit. If you contributed, you should get a share regardless if you're with them or not. I left my old clan because I was shunned for standing up for them, be it vulgar or not, I'm loyal till the end so I disagreed, and so did they so I left, but I wasn't going to give up all the stuff I worked for because they shunned me for being "too loyal". Fortunately for me, they didn't bug me, but that's because I think they know I earned it after all, and it wasn't much to begin with anyways. From my perspective, refusing to let any drops leave the clan seems like a power trip, because I've seen clan banks before and they have items rotting away that would do so much more for the server than it would rotting away. In my eyes, a clan owning gear concept is like "Hey conform to our rules even if you disagree, or don't ever hope about getting end game gear". It's pretty selfish if you ask me. I understand not wanting to gear other clans, but in my eyes the way it should be done is through hard work, giving the correct message, and playing right, because if you do that, why would you ever fall? Steady recruitment, fair play, and hard work is the way to stay on top, not hoarding drops in a clan owned bank. Most of the stuff I've seen people leave with on my server, the bank had plenty of just sitting and rotting away. You shouldn't be forced to join a group of players you dislike to progress in this game and that's why I disagree with clan owned items and I never will. Personally i don't like playing with bought toons and jerks so that's why I'm in the clan I'm in, and I've been able to buy stuff in the AH and progress reasonably while playing with people I enjoy playing with rather than people I dislike.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:47 pm
by Legolas1234
In my clan, we ask that if the clan has given out items to help them and they no longer need due getting better gear to donate back to the clan or give to a clannie that can benefit, this way people who havent got good gear benefit from the system thats in place and the items are there for those who need them and everyone gets geared that way

Re: Clan Owned Gear

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:55 am
by Ventius
MrsDredd wrote:No system is perfect, some prefer to play with people they actually like rather than be lumbered with the pests who transfer into epona because they can’t get accepted into a clan where people actually choose who they play with, of which there are many.
im of the exact opposite opinion here. Im happier on epona because i can choose to play with whoever i like. We can accept or deny whoever we want from joining a clan and that player will still have acess to end game. You could be clanless and still boss to the fullest capabilities. My clan is far from the most active on the server and not the most active with boss timers or camping however i play with the people that i like with zero impact on my bossing capabilities. I can still attend BT or gele or dino and win drops.

Meanwhile on arawn in the dom clan i was forced to play daily with people who i dislike and some who disliked me simply because there was no other option for end game. I had to suck it up and deal with those players or say goodbye to gele and necro and prot.

I can say with 100% certainty that there are plays on every single dom clan server who are there and put up with people that they dont like in order to be an end game player because they simply dont have any other choice. It is either that or xfer to a new server

Re: Clan Owned Gear

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:19 am
by Zkills
Ventius wrote:
MrsDredd wrote:No system is perfect, some prefer to play with people they actually like rather than be lumbered with the pests who transfer into epona because they can’t get accepted into a clan where people actually choose who they play with, of which there are many.
im of the exact opposite opinion here. Im happier on epona because i can choose to play with whoever i like. We can accept or deny whoever we want from joining a clan and that player will still have acess to end game. You could be clanless and still boss to the fullest capabilities. My clan is far from the most active on the server and not the most active with boss timers or camping however i play with the people that i like with zero impact on my bossing capabilities. I can still attend BT or gele or dino and win drops.

Meanwhile on arawn in the dom clan i was forced to play daily with people who i dislike and some who disliked me simply because there was no other option for end game. I had to suck it up and deal with those players or say goodbye to gele and necro and prot.

I can say with 100% certainty that there are plays on every single dom clan server who are there and put up with people that they dont like in order to be an end game player because they simply dont have any other choice. It is either that or xfer to a new server

+1 well said