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Clan Owned Gear

#1
So, we had a convo on another thread and ended up drifting into this.

The idea of clan owned gear to me anyway, seems like BS dom clan logic.
The analogy I like to use is its kinda like working for a company, you put in all the time,effort n work.
Instead of getting payed they lend you money. Then if you ever quit your job, they try to take you to collections and have you charged w theft.

I personally think distribution establishes ownership.
You may have attended hundreds of bosses, as well as used DKP/AKP to bid on items essentially winning them twice, not even counting the ones you didn't bid on.
I guarantee nobody downloaded the game, hoping somebody would be kind enough to lend them gear, for the priviledge of helping the clan acquire more gear.

I know some have been chased around their servers for leaving clans, shunned labeled a thief ect ect ect.
This isnt a game ideology this is a player construct.

So curious on thoughts n experience on the issue, since every server is a bit different w a bit of a different approach.
Some ranging from free to play, to others well others well into the realms of complete totalitarianism.
The "clan owner gear" seem to be a topic that keep coming up when you talk to people.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#2
Well you own it as long as you help clan out, don't see why you'd need to sell it. Besides most clans I've been in allow selling clan gear to other clannies, this gear earned by the clan stays in clan, insures a future for the clan and keeps you active. In a way it's a trap but like it works well for both the player and clan. But some clans deal differently with certain things.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#3
It doesn’t matter what the rules are, people joined the clan knowing what the rules are.

If you’re not happy with the rules, then don’t join.

It’s like going to a country where you don’t like the laws, break them and get confused why the country punishes you.
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A mage at heart... Fire mage that is.
Currently actively playing the game.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#4
Armo wrote:It doesn’t matter what the rules are, people joined the clan knowing what the rules are.

If you’re not happy with the rules, then don’t join.

It’s like going to a country where you don’t like the laws, break them and get confused why the country punishes you.


Yes and no...

Yes you were aware of the rules, no you may not have had a better option.

Players don't know the dynamics of a server when they download the game that comes later.
Now, should you end up on a server where one clan makes up the majority, that's severely limits a players options.
Basically saying join us, struggle or leave.
Should you not join this clan, getting geared is slower and a ton of the game/bosses are essentially cut off.
So yes people enter inyo this verbal contract, mostly due to lack of options at the time, and convenience.
They don't care about the politics they just wanna play the game.
Now after playing the game learning more and accomplishing whatever, all the while contributing to that clan.
Then deciding to move servers and or leave that clan for whatever reason.
Lets be honest clans are like relationships, nobody leaves one because its going to well lol.
How can they then be expected to return or refund gear they've taken all the steps, and done the work to acquire?
All because a handful of players decided that's how they'd like things to be, despite having no grounding in logic, fact or reason.
Its really more of a control thing

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#5
If you put in work for the clan, you deserve drops to call your own. Dom clans will usually try to say something along the lines of the bosses were killed by the group, not you. You are part of the group though, and you likely did the same amount of work as any other person at the fights you attended. Work deserves pay, that's the bottom line. You don't join endgame clans just to join them, we all know why the people are there. I have no sympathy for clans when they cry wolf about people leaving with "their gear", only anger.

But if you didn't put in work, took gear from a clan and left, that's where it gets tricky. If you do this to a clan that isn't doing anything wrong, and didn't help them out at all, then yeah that's pretty wrong. If it is a rival clan, I have mixed feelings. And if it's an evil dom clan, and you are taking the gear back to a clan to fight them I support you 100%. It's not like they were willingly going to let you get the gear anyway.

Personally, I always hated the idea of clans, and have only ever joined them for pure business purposes only. It is just a blue name over your head, with a dedicated chat, but people get so bent up over it and think they can rule the world because of it.
Last edited by Furyion on Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lavalord - 60 PvP Warrior
Keepin' it old school.
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Re: Clan Owned Gear

#6
Doc Holiday wrote:
Armo wrote:It doesn’t matter what the rules are, people joined the clan knowing what the rules are.

If you’re not happy with the rules, then don’t join.

It’s like going to a country where you don’t like the laws, break them and get confused why the country punishes you.


Yes and no...

Yes you were aware of the rules, no you may not have had a better option.

Players don't know the dynamics of a server when they download the game that comes later.
Now, should you end up on a server where one clan makes up the majority, that's severely limits a players options.
Basically saying join us, struggle or leave.
Should you not join this clan, getting geared is slower and a ton of the game/bosses are essentially cut off.
So yes people enter inyo this verbal contract, mostly due to lack of options at the time, and convenience.
They don't care about the politics they just wanna play the game.
Now after playing the game learning more and accomplishing whatever, all the while contributing to that clan.
Then deciding to move servers and or leave that clan for whatever reason.
Lets be honest clans are like relationships, nobody leaves one because its going to well lol.
How can they then be expected to return or refund gear they've taken all the steps, and done the work to acquire?
All because a handful of players decided that's how they'd like things to be, despite having no grounding in logic, fact or reason.
Its really more of a control thing

+1
Image

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#7
Furyion wrote:If you put in work for the clan, you deserve drops to call your own. Dom clans will usually try to say something along the lines of the bosses were killed by the group, not you. You are part of the group though, and you likely did the same amount of work as any other person at the fights you attended. Work deserves pay, that's the bottom line. You don't join endgame clans just to join them, we all know why the people are there. I have no sympathy for clans when they cry wolf about people leaving with "their gear", only anger.

But if you didn't put in work, took gear from a clan and left, that's where it gets tricky. If you do this to a clan that isn't doing anything wrong, and didn't help them out at all, then yeah that's pretty wrong. If it is a rival clan, I have mixed feelings. And if it's an evil dom clan, and you are taking the gear back to a clan to fight them I support you 100%. It's not like they were willingly going to let you get the gear anyway.

Personally, I always hated the idea of clans, and have only ever joined them for pure business purposes only. It is just a blue name over your head, with a dedicated chat, but people get so bent up over it and think they can rule the world because of it.


That's just a me>group mindset which is fine. Dom clans aren't some no fun zone that only cares about drops and killing raids. There maybe a few bad apples out there but I'd like to think most dom clans try to create a good community for players that want to play endgame.

Now I'll try to explain why them being clan drops makes sense. Sure its a group effort and you are rewarded drops for your work by the clan. As I said in my last post if you are in the clan and using the drops no one is gonna ask for that drop to give to someone else. Which should be good enough to keep you happy. If you are no longer using a drop then it would be nice to return it so another clan member could use and that way the clan continues to grow.

So now if the drop is owned by the player and its theirs to do with as they please once they are done with it they have a few options. First would be to sell the drop for gold. In a dom clan world the only people that are gonna buy eg raid gear would be the comp clans. You can see why we wouldn't want that. Another option would be to just hold onto it and again benefits no one. Lastly would be like I stated above returning it so another member could use.

When someone leaves the clan its a lot tougher and I can see both sides of it. Again if you are leaving the dom clan you are going to join the comp clan or you wouldn't have any need for them in the first place. As Armo said above its something you had already agreed to so it is something you should follow through with but, its not really enforceable. No one is gonna call you a scammer or try to harass you off the server. We have even let members back in and there is some trust lost but that's to be expected. Yes you worked for the drops but you wouldn't be able to obtain them without the work of many other players as well.

Like I said I can see both sides and it works for some and doesn't for others.

(Note this is all from my personal experience on Belenus and Elementals I can't speak for all other dom clans out there and I am in a dom clan so take it how you will)
Beast25 - Warrior 227

Belenus- Elementals

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#8
Armo wrote:It doesn’t matter what the rules are, people joined the clan knowing what the rules are.

If you’re not happy with the rules, then don’t join.

It’s like going to a country where you don’t like the laws, break them and get confused why the country punishes you.

This. No one cares if u had better option or not, there are rules, u dont like them, dont join. U cant tell VR not to ban u for buying or selling accs cus u had no better option and not to grief cus u had no way to compete on eg bosses other than that, h will still get banned.

There are places with different rules, dont try to portray the “free” servers as non biased and perfect because in these servers u can also noroll someone based on his gear, so lets be real here. Rolls servers like epona and taranis are nothing more than votes with a dice.

As for the “I joined clan, I earned it, its mine”. Lets see it like that. Ur a mage, u joined clan, another mage had shadow gele wand (firebolt) and now has won void. He doesnt need to return his shadow, he obviously earned it, why should he care for mages like u guys who want to earn it too? Just buy it with gold lul, screw ur effort right?

In other words, this “I earned it its mine” is like kids in kindergarden with their toys. That mindset is the real greedy mindset, as u are the reason ur fellow clanmates will not be as well geared as they could be, solely for ur own selfish desires. U are one individual in a large group of individuals, like u crave to have importance as an individual different than the rest, each and every other individual is important too. Ur mindset makes u feel like ur the most important one, cus u want ur desires on the expense of others who worked hard for ur “hard earned gear”. The idea of a clan is teamwork, u help me, I help u. Not I help u, u flip me off and sell the gear I helped u get.

Just stop being selfish 4heads
#NerfMages #AvoidBalance #WhyPlayARogue #MeatShieldOnly #HealingSlavesOnly

OP dps warrior on Belenus, hot af melee druid on Nuada. #Elementals #Apex

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#9
In pegasus gear is distributed by activity, so the pekple working hard are the once getting gear, if they decide to leave they can keep gear since they earned it.
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Legacyte 220 tank

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Azraell 181 locker ranger

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#10
Doc Holiday wrote:So, we had a convo on another thread and ended up drifting into this.

The idea of clan owned gear to me anyway, seems like BS dom clan logic.
The analogy I like to use is its kinda like working for a company, you put in all the time,effort n work.
Instead of getting payed they lend you money. Then if you ever quit your job, they try to take you to collections and have you charged w theft.

I personally think distribution establishes ownership.
You may have attended hundreds of bosses, as well as used DKP/AKP to bid on items essentially winning them twice, not even counting the ones you didn't bid on.
I guarantee nobody downloaded the game, hoping somebody would be kind enough to lend them gear, for the priviledge of helping the clan acquire more gear.

I know some have been chased around their servers for leaving clans, shunned labeled a thief ect ect ect.
This isnt a game ideology this is a player construct.

So curious on thoughts n experience on the issue, since every server is a bit different w a bit of a different approach.
Some ranging from free to play, to others well others well into the realms of complete totalitarianism.
The "clan owner gear" seem to be a topic that keep coming up when you talk to people.


Per the rules of the game, if it's in your inventory, it's yours. Dkp/akp system uses points you earned, and you spend them to gain items, I personally don't see an issue with keeping your earned items if you have a falling out with a clan, but to each their own. Telling somebody if they leave they must give the stuff they earned back is like blackmailing people into staying regardless of if they're happy or not, or lose all of their hard work. Its not just players who benefit from clans, but clans also benefit from the players.
Last edited by tayilern on Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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