Celtic Heroes

The Official Forum for Celtic Heroes, the 3D MMORPG for iOS and Android Devices

Re: Systems for dom clans

#21
Mdunc1982 wrote:
Zkills wrote:
Shivahh wrote:Then let them do their job

Kinda unfair though that they’re unable to invest as much as others who don’t have a busy life ,_, Unless if they should drop out of school or quit their professional job, go work at a low stress job at McDonalds, lose their house, lose their wife/girlfriend, move into a lonely apartment, all so that they’re able to invest more into Celtic Heroes lmao. Some people have gone down that path before, and that is no way to live life ._.


Half the player base Zkills, Half the player base Is like this. No way someone can be on ALL day without botting or having no life. Either way wouldn't want to stay off course so back to the topic at hand. None of the ways drops are disbursed are the issue. The issue is almost every server is controlled by a handful of people who set rules and dont actually follow them theirselves. Rules for thee but not for me. This game I'd about as toxic as any game I've ever been on. I've largely blamed the player base so far but I'm getting to the point thinking that the devs could actually limit some player abuse by not making EVERY single good drop tradeable so clan leaders have sole discretion on drops. Most clan leaders are simply the shadiest people imaginable then complain when someone steals all their bank drops when theyve been stealing from their clans for years. Lol

There is truth in these words, sadly. I mentioned in another thread how VR should limit people’s ability to completely run or “dominate” how things work by making it so that everyone who meets a certain aggro threshold has a chance at some loot, removing the ability from clans/leaders of being able to completely hoard all the drops and having total control over how things work. If the clan leaders have control over all the loot, then they also have control over all of the players who want loot... what does that sound like to you? I’ve always found it to be kind of ridiculous that my enjoyment of this game is being run by players who put themselves above everyone else when they really shouldn’t be... not even Epona is immune to that. It really ruins a lot of the fun players could otherwise have if they had more control over their own enjoyment and gameplay. With the gameplay in total control in the hands of “leaders”, they can warp and twist how things operate to their favor or cater to those who have the luxury to be online all day, most likely like themselves (leaders always tend to have the best gear lol).
Zkills, Proud general of the beloved KodiakReavers of Belenus, the G.O.A.T clan

Professor/Detective Zkills, op mage of Epona, chieftain of KodiakReavers. Server banned for doing PvP in arena.

Can you do the impossible?
Celtic Heroes Ultimate Challenge

Re: Systems for dom clans

#22
I'm going to divide this reply up a bit...


1) to answer the OP and be topical, Relentless uses a multi-DKP system without decay (although considering an inactivity tax) where DKP is rewarded to all toons rather than by player. We have activity regulations as well as some item regulations (for example, only one shadow+ gele weapon per player).
The system works well generally. Like any system it has its issues, the main one being alts winning gear they really shouldn't have access to, but it becomes a bit favoritistic to separate alts that actually are beneficial to the clan and those that kinda just show up, so the clan decided to just deal with the occasional poor distribution that occurs.

2) To address the concept of no lifing and whether it is "fair" for these people to be rewarded for it. I think this is very easily answered. Look at sports, academics, or any other pursued hobby out there. Those that put more time into them, do better at them. Gaming is just like any other hobby out there. There are those who have resources (time, money, connections) and are able to make the experience easier. Say the kid with $300 cleats compared to the kid who went to GoodWill as an analogy.
To punish those who are more invested than others, or to make it so that way investment doesn't determine outcome seems antithetical to the world we live in, and to the reasons people invest in anything at all.
This being said, each clan has a choice on how they want to set themselves up. Like forming a government, distribution of resources is central to the clan, and it is something that each clan can set up for themselves. This is why no two servers use the exact same distribution system. There are an infinite quantity of distribution systems, and then an infinite amount of nuances that can be attached.
To attack others for preferring a certain gaming experience isn't appropriate. In every hobby there are levels depending on what you are looking for, clans can do the same thing. So long as someone isn't trying to force their mindset on you, you really don't have a leg to stand on to say they are being unfair, or playing incorrectly.

3) Relax
I think a lot of people get a bit too invested into certain aspects of varying hobbies, whether thats gaming or otherwise. I think some of you need to breathe and relax a little bit lol. Life is too short to throw a fit over everything that you disagree with. Have fun, live a little, relax. :P
Gwydion - Voted Top Noob of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 226 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

Pineapple does NOT belong on Pizza

Re: Systems for dom clans

#23
Zkills wrote:
Mdunc1982 wrote:
Zkills wrote:Kinda unfair though that they’re unable to invest as much as others who don’t have a busy life ,_, Unless if they should drop out of school or quit their professional job, go work at a low stress job at McDonalds, lose their house, lose their wife/girlfriend, move into a lonely apartment, all so that they’re able to invest more into Celtic Heroes lmao. Some people have gone down that path before, and that is no way to live life ._.


Half the player base Zkills, Half the player base Is like this. No way someone can be on ALL day without botting or having no life. Either way wouldn't want to stay off course so back to the topic at hand. None of the ways drops are disbursed are the issue. The issue is almost every server is controlled by a handful of people who set rules and dont actually follow them theirselves. Rules for thee but not for me. This game I'd about as toxic as any game I've ever been on. I've largely blamed the player base so far but I'm getting to the point thinking that the devs could actually limit some player abuse by not making EVERY single good drop tradeable so clan leaders have sole discretion on drops. Most clan leaders are simply the shadiest people imaginable then complain when someone steals all their bank drops when theyve been stealing from their clans for years. Lol

There is truth in these words, sadly. I mentioned in another thread how VR should limit people’s ability to completely run or “dominate” how things work by making it so that everyone who meets a certain aggro threshold has a chance at some loot, removing the ability from clans/leaders of being able to completely hoard all the drops and having total control over how things work. If the clan leaders have control over all the loot, then they also have control over all of the players who want loot... what does that sound like to you? I’ve always found it to be kind of ridiculous that my enjoyment of this game is being run by players who put themselves above everyone else when they really shouldn’t be... not even Epona is immune to that. It really ruins a lot of the fun players could otherwise have if they had more control over their own enjoyment and gameplay. With the gameplay in total control in the hands of “leaders”, they can warp and twist how things operate to their favor or cater to those who have the luxury to be online all day, most likely like themselves (leaders always tend to have the best gear lol).


It seems like there's several different issues here - that leaders collect drops, that leaders decide who gets what, that dedicated players have an advantage over casual players.

For leaders collecting drops - that is (mostly) a clan decided rule. Sure, VR could adjust drop distribution to not be limited to just players in the lock group, but that won't necessarily stop leaders from collecting drops - just make it more of a headache for them to do so, as well as essentially making the lock system obsolete. That would be both a good and a bad thing depending on your situation - if you aren't in a dom clan and are fighting for a boss, you still stand a chance at getting a drop, which is good for you but bad for the dom clan. That's one of the main reasons I like dicing for drops - it's a fair way of distributing gear among everyone who participated at the fight, because the lock system is inherently flawed when it comes to raid bosses.


As for leaders deciding the distribution of the drops - most clans want to reward players who help the clan the most, and that just usually isn't casual players. It makes sense though - if you have a player who is online most of the day, fighting for bosses, and actually helping to get the drops, they would (and should) have a higher priority than someone who only plays casually, and isn't benefiting the clan as a whole as much.


On the topic of casual vs dedicated players....this is nothing new. Practically every single game has some sort of time-related curve. In a lot of games it's a skill curve - the more you play the better you get (usually), whereas in CH (and many other MMOs) it's simply about how much time can be dedicated to the game..and I think that's how it should be. I do think that people who dedicate more time to something deserve a better chance at (or just better) rewards.

If someone can be on CH for 10 hours a day, it makes sense for them to get better gear/items than someone who is only on for 30-60 minutes a day. A similar gaming comparison might be putting a pro Overwatch or CSGO player vs someone who plays a couple hours a week for fun. Is that fair for the casual player? Definitely not. However, that's because one person is dedicating huge amounts of time to it, and the other person has more important things to do. If you want complete fairness, play a vs AI - playing against/with other players is never going to be completely fair.

The end result is that there really isn't anything that can or should be done. If VR were to somehow come up with a weighted way to benefit casual players over dedicated players, it would be (by its very essence) unfair - at least this way the gameplay itself is fair, even if the players may not necessarily be.

Don't get me wrong - I do understand the frustration of playing casually. That's why I rarely log into the game now, I simply don't have the time in order to actually participate as much as is necessary to get any rewards. Of all the eg boss loot that my 5 characters currently have equipped/regularly use, only 2 items were given by my clan. CH is simply not very friendly to lightly casual endgame players.


As for leaders getting better gear than other players - that's usually (but not always) because clan leaders tend to be the most dedicated players. Is it fair to someone who only plays a few hours a week? No. But for the most part, gearing comes down to what benefits the clan (and yes the leaders) the most - and gearing someone who is on 10 hours a day will be of more use to the clan than someone who is online for 30-60 minutes a day.



Anyways, this rabbit trail is being done to death lol, like bob said - sometimes you just gotta take a deep breath and relax.
Have questions about anything? PM me!
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Harbinger of cold hard logic and reason.
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Re: Systems for dom clans

#24
I always fail to see the connection people make with this game and the real world. Sure gaming itself might be considered a hobby, but to me what happens inside of those games is something completely different. Gaming can be generalized into one category, console/PC/mobile/handheld/whatever, gaming is gaming... it’s a virtual world that has no impact in the real world unless if you choose to do so (which is most of the time unhealthy). Another point to bring up is the fact that it’s a mobile game. People who play mobile games generally like to play games in very short periods of time, sometimes on the go, versus sitting down and playing for hours at a time on a console or PC. The mobile market is so so so so much more different than the console/PC market.

The way clans set things up basically makes it so that if you do not log on every single day, investing many hours throughout the week, you’re not getting any decent gear. How does that exactly appeal to the mobile market? Players are obviously the ones preventing this game from taking off, and neither OTM or VR were/are willing to step in and put a stop to it. I guarantee you that a majority of the players quit this game because they get burnt out so easily from the amount of time they’re forced to invest to keep up in dkp/attendance, or they simply don’t have the time anymore to keep up with other players... think about it, you spend hours and hours and hours sitting down doing mindless lixing just to get to 220, and then if you want any gear you’re forced to join yet another mindless grind for dkp/attendance. The drop rates are not the sole issue, because if that were the case then Epona would be a dead server by now.

As for my suggestion on drops being obtained through hitting a certain aggro threshold, the whole point of it is try and prevent clans/players from trying to monopolize the server and put it under their own control. Sure people can still clan up and distribute drops with dkp, but it’ll be discouraged. It’ll allow for players to play casually and still have a chance at good loot. It’ll create a much more welcoming environment for new players and it’ll give active existing players more incentives to log on and it’ll give inactive players a better reason to come back. Epona tried its best to achieve this, but the server is still being run by players and drops being directly dropped from bosses are still being controlled by high up players. It’s a lot more incentivizing to come to a Gele knowing you have a chance at getting a void weapon versus going to a Gele knowing you have a 0% chance of getting a void weapon because if one drops it’ll just go to a player who is able to spend more time ingame than you... it’s a good reason to want to leave the game and on the other end it’s the reason why Epona gets like 2-3 pages of players for any boss that’s publicly called lol.

On an ending note, you’d be surprised to see how many players skip bosses because they have no good incentive to actually go because they have plenty of dkp or they just don’t see much reason. Dkp is too heavily flawed, and it just goes to how flawed players are when they try to restrict the game under their own rules. It’s a game everyone wants to enjoy and a game that shouldn’t be restricted to favor those who have more time than others because it’s a much more accessible mobile game that grabs the attention of players different from those you’ll find in a console or Pc MMO.
Zkills, Proud general of the beloved KodiakReavers of Belenus, the G.O.A.T clan

Professor/Detective Zkills, op mage of Epona, chieftain of KodiakReavers. Server banned for doing PvP in arena.

Can you do the impossible?
Celtic Heroes Ultimate Challenge

Re: Systems for dom clans

#25
Eragon123 wrote:
Zkills wrote:
Mdunc1982 wrote:
Half the player base Zkills, Half the player base Is like this. No way someone can be on ALL day without botting or having no life. Either way wouldn't want to stay off course so back to the topic at hand. None of the ways drops are disbursed are the issue. The issue is almost every server is controlled by a handful of people who set rules and dont actually follow them theirselves. Rules for thee but not for me. This game I'd about as toxic as any game I've ever been on. I've largely blamed the player base so far but I'm getting to the point thinking that the devs could actually limit some player abuse by not making EVERY single good drop tradeable so clan leaders have sole discretion on drops. Most clan leaders are simply the shadiest people imaginable then complain when someone steals all their bank drops when theyve been stealing from their clans for years. Lol

There is truth in these words, sadly. I mentioned in another thread how VR should limit people’s ability to completely run or “dominate” how things work by making it so that everyone who meets a certain aggro threshold has a chance at some loot, removing the ability from clans/leaders of being able to completely hoard all the drops and having total control over how things work. If the clan leaders have control over all the loot, then they also have control over all of the players who want loot... what does that sound like to you? I’ve always found it to be kind of ridiculous that my enjoyment of this game is being run by players who put themselves above everyone else when they really shouldn’t be... not even Epona is immune to that. It really ruins a lot of the fun players could otherwise have if they had more control over their own enjoyment and gameplay. With the gameplay in total control in the hands of “leaders”, they can warp and twist how things operate to their favor or cater to those who have the luxury to be online all day, most likely like themselves (leaders always tend to have the best gear lol).


It seems like there's several different issues here - that leaders collect drops, that leaders decide who gets what, that dedicated players have an advantage over casual players.

For leaders collecting drops - that is (mostly) a clan decided rule. Sure, VR could adjust drop distribution to not be limited to just players in the lock group, but that won't necessarily stop leaders from collecting drops - just make it more of a headache for them to do so, as well as essentially making the lock system obsolete. That would be both a good and a bad thing depending on your situation - if you aren't in a dom clan and are fighting for a boss, you still stand a chance at getting a drop, which is good for you but bad for the dom clan. That's one of the main reasons I like dicing for drops - it's a fair way of distributing gear among everyone who participated at the fight, because the lock system is inherently flawed when it comes to raid bosses.


As for leaders deciding the distribution of the drops - most clans want to reward players who help the clan the most, and that just usually isn't casual players. It makes sense though - if you have a player who is online most of the day, fighting for bosses, and actually helping to get the drops, they would (and should) have a higher priority than someone who only plays casually, and isn't benefiting the clan as a whole as much.


On the topic of casual vs dedicated players....this is nothing new. Practically every single game has some sort of time-related curve. In a lot of games it's a skill curve - the more you play the better you get (usually), whereas in CH (and many other MMOs) it's simply about how much time can be dedicated to the game..and I think that's how it should be. I do think that people who dedicate more time to something deserve a better chance at (or just better) rewards.

If someone can be on CH for 10 hours a day, it makes sense for them to get better gear/items than someone who is only on for 30-60 minutes a day. A similar gaming comparison might be putting a pro Overwatch or CSGO player vs someone who plays a couple hours a week for fun. Is that fair for the casual player? Definitely not. However, that's because one person is dedicating huge amounts of time to it, and the other person has more important things to do. If you want complete fairness, play a vs AI - playing against/with other players is never going to be completely fair.

The end result is that there really isn't anything that can or should be done. If VR were to somehow come up with a weighted way to benefit casual players over dedicated players, it would be (by its very essence) unfair - at least this way the gameplay itself is fair, even if the players may not necessarily be.

Don't get me wrong - I do understand the frustration of playing casually. That's why I rarely log into the game now, I simply don't have the time in order to actually participate as much as is necessary to get any rewards. Of all the eg boss loot that my 5 characters currently have equipped/regularly use, only 2 items were given by my clan. CH is simply not very friendly to lightly casual endgame players.


As for leaders getting better gear than other players - that's usually (but not always) because clan leaders tend to be the most dedicated players. Is it fair to someone who only plays a few hours a week? No. But for the most part, gearing comes down to what benefits the clan (and yes the leaders) the most - and gearing someone who is on 10 hours a day will be of more use to the clan than someone who is online for 30-60 minutes a day.



Anyways, this rabbit trail is being done to death lol, like bob said - sometimes you just gotta take a deep breath and relax.


Yeah except that isnt what is happening. People are spending 10 hours a day and getting absolutely nothing while clan leaders and generals withhold items, sell them on auction on an alt, then tell you dont sell drops. Also if I were to play overwatch even 1 hour a day I'd still be rewarded for my efforts because I'm actually really good at shooters, I just hate mobile shooters.
Brevity is the soul of wit so i will talk your ears off.

Re: Systems for dom clans

#26
Mdunc1982 wrote:
Eragon123 wrote:
Zkills wrote:There is truth in these words, sadly. I mentioned in another thread how VR should limit people’s ability to completely run or “dominate” how things work by making it so that everyone who meets a certain aggro threshold has a chance at some loot, removing the ability from clans/leaders of being able to completely hoard all the drops and having total control over how things work. If the clan leaders have control over all the loot, then they also have control over all of the players who want loot... what does that sound like to you? I’ve always found it to be kind of ridiculous that my enjoyment of this game is being run by players who put themselves above everyone else when they really shouldn’t be... not even Epona is immune to that. It really ruins a lot of the fun players could otherwise have if they had more control over their own enjoyment and gameplay. With the gameplay in total control in the hands of “leaders”, they can warp and twist how things operate to their favor or cater to those who have the luxury to be online all day, most likely like themselves (leaders always tend to have the best gear lol).


It seems like there's several different issues here - that leaders collect drops, that leaders decide who gets what, that dedicated players have an advantage over casual players.

For leaders collecting drops - that is (mostly) a clan decided rule. Sure, VR could adjust drop distribution to not be limited to just players in the lock group, but that won't necessarily stop leaders from collecting drops - just make it more of a headache for them to do so, as well as essentially making the lock system obsolete. That would be both a good and a bad thing depending on your situation - if you aren't in a dom clan and are fighting for a boss, you still stand a chance at getting a drop, which is good for you but bad for the dom clan. That's one of the main reasons I like dicing for drops - it's a fair way of distributing gear among everyone who participated at the fight, because the lock system is inherently flawed when it comes to raid bosses.


As for leaders deciding the distribution of the drops - most clans want to reward players who help the clan the most, and that just usually isn't casual players. It makes sense though - if you have a player who is online most of the day, fighting for bosses, and actually helping to get the drops, they would (and should) have a higher priority than someone who only plays casually, and isn't benefiting the clan as a whole as much.


On the topic of casual vs dedicated players....this is nothing new. Practically every single game has some sort of time-related curve. In a lot of games it's a skill curve - the more you play the better you get (usually), whereas in CH (and many other MMOs) it's simply about how much time can be dedicated to the game..and I think that's how it should be. I do think that people who dedicate more time to something deserve a better chance at (or just better) rewards.

If someone can be on CH for 10 hours a day, it makes sense for them to get better gear/items than someone who is only on for 30-60 minutes a day. A similar gaming comparison might be putting a pro Overwatch or CSGO player vs someone who plays a couple hours a week for fun. Is that fair for the casual player? Definitely not. However, that's because one person is dedicating huge amounts of time to it, and the other person has more important things to do. If you want complete fairness, play a vs AI - playing against/with other players is never going to be completely fair.

The end result is that there really isn't anything that can or should be done. If VR were to somehow come up with a weighted way to benefit casual players over dedicated players, it would be (by its very essence) unfair - at least this way the gameplay itself is fair, even if the players may not necessarily be.

Don't get me wrong - I do understand the frustration of playing casually. That's why I rarely log into the game now, I simply don't have the time in order to actually participate as much as is necessary to get any rewards. Of all the eg boss loot that my 5 characters currently have equipped/regularly use, only 2 items were given by my clan. CH is simply not very friendly to lightly casual endgame players.


As for leaders getting better gear than other players - that's usually (but not always) because clan leaders tend to be the most dedicated players. Is it fair to someone who only plays a few hours a week? No. But for the most part, gearing comes down to what benefits the clan (and yes the leaders) the most - and gearing someone who is on 10 hours a day will be of more use to the clan than someone who is online for 30-60 minutes a day.



Anyways, this rabbit trail is being done to death lol, like bob said - sometimes you just gotta take a deep breath and relax.


Yeah except that isnt what is happening. People are spending 10 hours a day and getting absolutely nothing while clan leaders and generals withhold items, sell them on auction on an alt, then tell you dont sell drops. Also if I were to play overwatch even 1 hour a day I'd still be rewarded for my efforts because I'm actually really good at shooters, I just hate mobile shooters.

That’s up to the clan though. On arawn that happened and I eventually had enough of it and left. A general had stolen hundreds of items, sold tons, and was preparing to leave to make her own clan with a few other leaders. They got caught and rather than punish they gave her a rogue DG set lel.
It happens and it’s up the players in the clan to decide to call it out or not and agree to play with those people or not. I chose not to and forfeited my DG set that I was about to get in the process. It’s all about risk reward. Some people don’t care enough and just want to stay complacent, which is totally fine. Others like me were happy to leave after I had enough and start over somewhere where the environment fit my playstyle better.

Imo this isn’t an issue with any one distribution system, but with human nature. Up to the clan to ensure bank stays transparent.
Gwydion - Voted Top Noob of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 226 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

Pineapple does NOT belong on Pizza

Re: Systems for dom clans

#27
bob the mage wrote:Imo this isn’t an issue with any one distribution system, but with human nature. Up to the clan to ensure bank stays transparent.

And the human nature in Celtic Heroes apparently involves a lot of greed. Infected this game like the bubonic plague. No server is cured of it, every major clan is infected with it, it gets into the minds of everyone exposed to it, and worst of all those infected don’t even realize that they’re infected with it and then make systems/rules/decisions that support it, and VR won’t do anything to stop it despite being fully capable of doing so. Greed is killing this game. Go talk to almost any fresh player and ask them what the biggest problem is in this game, many of them will say greed amongst the higher level players. From what I’ve seen, greed is probably a bigger issue to them than the horrible leveling grind. Low level players read my posts here on the forums and literally come looking for me ingame just to tell me how much they agree and I actually converse with them instead of ignoring them like many others do.

It usually takes someone from the outside of that circle of greed to notice it and bring awareness to it. Almost like walking into a friends room which smells like s**t, but they don’t smell a thing because they’re so used to it. You tell them to spray the entire room with febreeze and they either acknowledge it and fix it, or flat out deny it because they don’t smell a thing and therefor isn’t a problem, a rather selfish or inconsiderate way of thinking. It’s the latter scenario for many people here.
Zkills, Proud general of the beloved KodiakReavers of Belenus, the G.O.A.T clan

Professor/Detective Zkills, op mage of Epona, chieftain of KodiakReavers. Server banned for doing PvP in arena.

Can you do the impossible?
Celtic Heroes Ultimate Challenge

Re: Systems for dom clans

#28
bob the mage wrote:
Mdunc1982 wrote:
Eragon123 wrote:
It seems like there's several different issues here - that leaders collect drops, that leaders decide who gets what, that dedicated players have an advantage over casual players.

For leaders collecting drops - that is (mostly) a clan decided rule. Sure, VR could adjust drop distribution to not be limited to just players in the lock group, but that won't necessarily stop leaders from collecting drops - just make it more of a headache for them to do so, as well as essentially making the lock system obsolete. That would be both a good and a bad thing depending on your situation - if you aren't in a dom clan and are fighting for a boss, you still stand a chance at getting a drop, which is good for you but bad for the dom clan. That's one of the main reasons I like dicing for drops - it's a fair way of distributing gear among everyone who participated at the fight, because the lock system is inherently flawed when it comes to raid bosses.


As for leaders deciding the distribution of the drops - most clans want to reward players who help the clan the most, and that just usually isn't casual players. It makes sense though - if you have a player who is online most of the day, fighting for bosses, and actually helping to get the drops, they would (and should) have a higher priority than someone who only plays casually, and isn't benefiting the clan as a whole as much.


On the topic of casual vs dedicated players....this is nothing new. Practically every single game has some sort of time-related curve. In a lot of games it's a skill curve - the more you play the better you get (usually), whereas in CH (and many other MMOs) it's simply about how much time can be dedicated to the game..and I think that's how it should be. I do think that people who dedicate more time to something deserve a better chance at (or just better) rewards.

If someone can be on CH for 10 hours a day, it makes sense for them to get better gear/items than someone who is only on for 30-60 minutes a day. A similar gaming comparison might be putting a pro Overwatch or CSGO player vs someone who plays a couple hours a week for fun. Is that fair for the casual player? Definitely not. However, that's because one person is dedicating huge amounts of time to it, and the other person has more important things to do. If you want complete fairness, play a vs AI - playing against/with other players is never going to be completely fair.

The end result is that there really isn't anything that can or should be done. If VR were to somehow come up with a weighted way to benefit casual players over dedicated players, it would be (by its very essence) unfair - at least this way the gameplay itself is fair, even if the players may not necessarily be.

Don't get me wrong - I do understand the frustration of playing casually. That's why I rarely log into the game now, I simply don't have the time in order to actually participate as much as is necessary to get any rewards. Of all the eg boss loot that my 5 characters currently have equipped/regularly use, only 2 items were given by my clan. CH is simply not very friendly to lightly casual endgame players.


As for leaders getting better gear than other players - that's usually (but not always) because clan leaders tend to be the most dedicated players. Is it fair to someone who only plays a few hours a week? No. But for the most part, gearing comes down to what benefits the clan (and yes the leaders) the most - and gearing someone who is on 10 hours a day will be of more use to the clan than someone who is online for 30-60 minutes a day.



Anyways, this rabbit trail is being done to death lol, like bob said - sometimes you just gotta take a deep breath and relax.


Yeah except that isnt what is happening. People are spending 10 hours a day and getting absolutely nothing while clan leaders and generals withhold items, sell them on auction on an alt, then tell you dont sell drops. Also if I were to play overwatch even 1 hour a day I'd still be rewarded for my efforts because I'm actually really good at shooters, I just hate mobile shooters.

That’s up to the clan though. On arawn that happened and I eventually had enough of it and left. A general had stolen hundreds of items, sold tons, and was preparing to leave to make her own clan with a few other leaders. They got caught and rather than punish they gave her a rogue DG set lel.
It happens and it’s up the players in the clan to decide to call it out or not and agree to play with those people or not. I chose not to and forfeited my DG set that I was about to get in the process. It’s all about risk reward. Some people don’t care enough and just want to stay complacent, which is totally fine. Others like me were happy to leave after I had enough and start over somewhere where the environment fit my playstyle better.

Imo this isn’t an issue with any one distribution system, but with human nature. Up to the clan to ensure bank stays transparent.


Well said Bob but I dont want to keep starting over. I've done it about 10 times already and I'm tired of it. It takes months to get your abilities and lvl up and only 1 day for people here to spread lies, cheat you out of what you earned and found. If someone puts in the work regardless if they play 1 hour or 10 you reward them. If I find 4 legacies in 1 hour why should I not be given something good when 90% of the player base doesnt even bother looking or know where to look. Lol
Brevity is the soul of wit so i will talk your ears off.

Re: Systems for dom clans

#29
Not seeing how a leader can decide who gets the drops. DKP is DKP? Or are we talking about another system?

Or just a corrupt one?

I attend boss

Drop I want drops

I bid on it

I win


From this point, how does a leader decide if I get it or not? Say no? I mean, at least in my clan, if a leader tried to pull that or even the chief without basing it off on a pre existing rule, good luck with that! Oh goodness the outrage that would result from that! Dang!

If a leader is selling drops, they for sure won't be good ones! You expect me to believe to see a Imp attack prot brace in AH then tell me it came from the bank? Naw dude. Where did that purple crown go? We had 3 yesterday now theres one? People who need the gear take track of these things. Another thing that helps is put in place a bank transparency system. A thing a few clans did before in Mabon was they would add/remove drops as they're auctioned out / put in the bank shown as screenshots in a line group.

As for the no-lifer issues, if your clan has gear restrictions in place, it won't end badly. I mean, they can only win an imp BT charm once. Once. Any clan that lets people bid on duplicate items is just horrible planning.

For an example, my clan:
One Dino wep per toon
One Ammy, charm and I would assume certain rings like CD rings per person. Once you win a imperial charm, you have to return the royal charm for example. You can't keep it. I would assume if you win a imp CD BT ring you have to return the royal version.


Enough rules in place and it can't be abused. If its a clan done right, if a leader crosses the line, they're getting called out. End of story.
Ashley A - 222 Mage - Novalis - Mabon
000000000000000 - 216 Rogue - Novalis - Mabon
Azona - 210 Druid - Novalis - Mabon

Then some Epona toons yo

Re: Systems for dom clans

#30
There is a lot more flaws to dkp then what you mentioned/tried to address. It’s not a new player/member friendly system and it’s a horrible system to use to incentivize people to go to bosses. People skip bosses all the time when they’re fully capable of attending. The obsession over wanting more and more points only lasts for so long. There’s just something super unsatisfying about killing a boss knowing you won’t get anything out of it, no chance whatsoever.
Zkills, Proud general of the beloved KodiakReavers of Belenus, the G.O.A.T clan

Professor/Detective Zkills, op mage of Epona, chieftain of KodiakReavers. Server banned for doing PvP in arena.

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