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Re: Aimed at top tier end game clans

#11
Sly Shadows wrote:I think the last alliance that formed on Arawn was between Res and DS which fell extremely quickly. One of the main reasons was the massive difference between gear/levels. For example at the time DS did not have lockers to compare to Res so Res lock groups mainly was comprised of their own toons leaving DS lockers out unless needed filling. I think it lasted a week or 2 tbh but was never officially ended for a while later. But that only occured for dragonlord bosses i believe. Not one clan has had a good alliance or good relations with Resurgence whether they wanted to or not since that DragonSouls alliance, correct me if im wrong though. Res did gift DS with dragonlord horns though as an initial alliance gift or something similar.

This took place 1.5-2+ years ago.

This is a slightly altered view. More so what happened was res wanted to use DS to limit where old res members could go and was trying to force their rules onto DS.
Per the alliance all drops at dl bosses were rolled upon. That was it.
So DS decided eventually to favor growth over having to roll on drops. They invited some people that res either kicked, or that left res on no favorable terms as well as a few people who left res for their own reasons. This caused BigD to get pissed because they were not allowed in res, but were now in a clan “allied” with res, so he ended it.
It lasted about a month.

The issue with this alliance is it was done to benefit res more than DS, and DS was hurt more than helped by it, so DS found that it was in their best interest as a clan to expand outside the very strict parameters res gave them, and work that way. It worked well for them too, they got more DL drops competing than they ever did rolling for them in the alliance.


The lesson here I suppose is that alliances need to be built under a mutual trust and reward system. If only one clan gains it’s easy for the other to drift apart to try and equalize that disparity.
Gwydion - Top Meme of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 222 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
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Accepting free Phoenix eggs :shock:

Re: Aimed at top tier end game clans

#12
bob the mage wrote:
Sly Shadows wrote:I think the last alliance that formed on Arawn was between Res and DS which fell extremely quickly. One of the main reasons was the massive difference between gear/levels. For example at the time DS did not have lockers to compare to Res so Res lock groups mainly was comprised of their own toons leaving DS lockers out unless needed filling. I think it lasted a week or 2 tbh but was never officially ended for a while later. But that only occured for dragonlord bosses i believe. Not one clan has had a good alliance or good relations with Resurgence whether they wanted to or not since that DragonSouls alliance, correct me if im wrong though. Res did gift DS with dragonlord horns though as an initial alliance gift or something similar.

This took place 1.5-2+ years ago.

This is a slightly altered view. More so what happened was res wanted to use DS to limit where old res members could go and was trying to force their rules onto DS.
Per the alliance all drops at dl bosses were rolled upon. That was it.
So DS decided eventually to favor growth over having to roll on drops. They invited some people that res either kicked, or that left res on no favorable terms as well as a few people who left res for their own reasons. This caused BigD to get pissed because they were not allowed in res, but were now in a clan “allied” with res, so he ended it.
It lasted about a month.

The issue with this alliance is it was done to benefit res more than DS, and DS was hurt more than helped by it, so DS found that it was in their best interest as a clan to expand outside the very strict parameters res gave them, and work that way. It worked well for them too, they got more DL drops competing than they ever did rolling for them in the alliance.


The lesson here I suppose is that alliances need to be built under a mutual trust and reward system. If only one clan gains it’s easy for the other to drift apart to try and equalize that disparity.


This might be missing some really huge key details and facts that I’m not going into because the thread isn’t about Arawn.


Celtic Heroes, in general, is great because the developers mainly leave the game alone to be paved the way by players, only stepping in to fix certain problems if they get out of hand. A player-driven game.

Whether it be by third-party apps or timers or databases, it was up to players alone to determine their own system for their clans, their world’s, the prices, and even gameplay.

Without any official “clan bonuses” or official “clan banks,” (Well for now at least) the only thing the game gives players regarding clans is a name, a clan list, a place to chat, and promotion/demotion powers. Anything past that (alliances, third party apps, gear distributions) is all up to players.

It’s great alliances work on your server, although through personal experiences, there’s will always be a “dominant” clan and a “weaker” clan in any alliance relationships. As the OP mentioned, all of the drops are banked through their clan bank with dominant clan leaders’ voting who gets DG, Seeds, anointed rings etc.

The difference in “power” and gear might cause discontent and lead one to break off from another on some servers. Although there been many instances in-game where the smaller clan eventually overtakes the dominant clan so ironically alliances between the dominant and smaller clan might not always be in the best interest for the smaller clan.

Basically, the point I’m making is that each server has a completely different playstyle due to how the game is ran. Alliances might work for some and might not, might be worse off for the smaller clan or might be extremely beneficial.

Choose your own playstyle and stick with it because there’s no right or wrong answer :?:
Image

Re: Aimed at top tier end game clans

#13
Froze wrote:
bob the mage wrote:
Sly Shadows wrote:I think the last alliance that formed on Arawn was between Res and DS which fell extremely quickly. One of the main reasons was the massive difference between gear/levels. For example at the time DS did not have lockers to compare to Res so Res lock groups mainly was comprised of their own toons leaving DS lockers out unless needed filling. I think it lasted a week or 2 tbh but was never officially ended for a while later. But that only occured for dragonlord bosses i believe. Not one clan has had a good alliance or good relations with Resurgence whether they wanted to or not since that DragonSouls alliance, correct me if im wrong though. Res did gift DS with dragonlord horns though as an initial alliance gift or something similar.

This took place 1.5-2+ years ago.

This is a slightly altered view. More so what happened was res wanted to use DS to limit where old res members could go and was trying to force their rules onto DS.
Per the alliance all drops at dl bosses were rolled upon. That was it.
So DS decided eventually to favor growth over having to roll on drops. They invited some people that res either kicked, or that left res on no favorable terms as well as a few people who left res for their own reasons. This caused BigD to get pissed because they were not allowed in res, but were now in a clan “allied” with res, so he ended it.
It lasted about a month.

The issue with this alliance is it was done to benefit res more than DS, and DS was hurt more than helped by it, so DS found that it was in their best interest as a clan to expand outside the very strict parameters res gave them, and work that way. It worked well for them too, they got more DL drops competing than they ever did rolling for them in the alliance.


The lesson here I suppose is that alliances need to be built under a mutual trust and reward system. If only one clan gains it’s easy for the other to drift apart to try and equalize that disparity.


This might be missing some really huge key details and facts that I’m not going into because the thread isn’t about Arawn.


Celtic Heroes, in general, is great because the developers mainly leave the game alone to be paved the way by players, only stepping in to fix certain problems if they get out of hand. A player-driven game.

Whether it be by third-party apps or timers or databases, it was up to players alone to determine their own system for their clans, their world’s, the prices, and even gameplay.

Without any official “clan bonuses” or official “clan banks,” (Well for now at least) the only thing the game gives players regarding clans is a name, a clan list, a place to chat, and promotion/demotion powers. Anything past that (alliances, third party apps, gear distributions) is all up to players.

It’s great alliances work on your server, although through personal experiences, there’s will always be a “dominant” clan and a “weaker” clan in any alliance relationships. As the OP mentioned, all of the drops are banked through their clan bank with dominant clan leaders’ voting who gets DG, Seeds, anointed rings etc.

The difference in “power” and gear might cause discontent and lead one to break off from another on some servers. Although there been many instances in-game where the smaller clan eventually overtakes the dominant clan so ironically alliances between the dominant and smaller clan might not always be in the best interest for the smaller clan.

Basically, the point I’m making is that each server has a completely different playstyle due to how the game is ran. Alliances might work for some and might not, might be worse off for the smaller clan or might be extremely beneficial.

Choose your own playstyle and stick with it because there’s no right or wrong answer :?:

From a political stand point it depends
1) does the “weaker” clan have more to gain from breaking the alliance or maintaining it

Actually that’s most of it. Like I said, and you agreed in your own roundabout argument that concluded with a conclusion very similar to my own, if the reward system is not equal enough or beneficial enough to the “weaker” clan, then they will break the alliance or drift away. This conclusion has an equivalent with a qualifier, that if the alliance has a beneficial reward scheme in which breaking the alliance hurts more than keeping it, the alliance remains.

I was a guard during the DS alliance, or part of it anyways, and it broke off because BigD rightfully didn’t want to work with people he didn’t want in res, which is completely fair. As to why these individuals were invited into DS, it’s because they had more to gain by drifting away from the alliance, and they did. After leaving they got more DL armor and weapon sets as well as EDL sets than they did in the alliance in a shorter span of time.

It’s like we both said, each clan and server needs to self evaluate and pick what works best, however to say that an alliance doesn’t work or can’t work isn’t the case. It is always possible for one to work by nature of the logic, the question is whether or not it’s beneficial for
1) the top clan that would be weakening itself through the alliance
2) the server
3) the allied clan enough that they will maintain it

If it isn’t, then an alliance shouldn’t be perused.
Gwyd got lucky, but we also opened up our banks a lot more than any other alliance thus seen in the game so far, which may be why it’s worked better and longer. Because it’s more beneficial to remain than break.
Gwydion - Top Meme of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 222 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

Accepting free Phoenix eggs :shock:

Re: Aimed at top tier end game clans

#14
bob the mage wrote:
Froze wrote:
bob the mage wrote:This is a slightly altered view. More so what happened was res wanted to use DS to limit where old res members could go and was trying to force their rules onto DS.
Per the alliance all drops at dl bosses were rolled upon. That was it.
So DS decided eventually to favor growth over having to roll on drops. They invited some people that res either kicked, or that left res on no favorable terms as well as a few people who left res for their own reasons. This caused BigD to get pissed because they were not allowed in res, but were now in a clan “allied” with res, so he ended it.
It lasted about a month.

The issue with this alliance is it was done to benefit res more than DS, and DS was hurt more than helped by it, so DS found that it was in their best interest as a clan to expand outside the very strict parameters res gave them, and work that way. It worked well for them too, they got more DL drops competing than they ever did rolling for them in the alliance.


The lesson here I suppose is that alliances need to be built under a mutual trust and reward system. If only one clan gains it’s easy for the other to drift apart to try and equalize that disparity.


This might be missing some really huge key details and facts that I’m not going into because the thread isn’t about Arawn.


Celtic Heroes, in general, is great because the developers mainly leave the game alone to be paved the way by players, only stepping in to fix certain problems if they get out of hand. A player-driven game.

Whether it be by third-party apps or timers or databases, it was up to players alone to determine their own system for their clans, their world’s, the prices, and even gameplay.

Without any official “clan bonuses” or official “clan banks,” (Well for now at least) the only thing the game gives players regarding clans is a name, a clan list, a place to chat, and promotion/demotion powers. Anything past that (alliances, third party apps, gear distributions) is all up to players.

It’s great alliances work on your server, although through personal experiences, there’s will always be a “dominant” clan and a “weaker” clan in any alliance relationships. As the OP mentioned, all of the drops are banked through their clan bank with dominant clan leaders’ voting who gets DG, Seeds, anointed rings etc.

The difference in “power” and gear might cause discontent and lead one to break off from another on some servers. Although there been many instances in-game where the smaller clan eventually overtakes the dominant clan so ironically alliances between the dominant and smaller clan might not always be in the best interest for the smaller clan.

Basically, the point I’m making is that each server has a completely different playstyle due to how the game is ran. Alliances might work for some and might not, might be worse off for the smaller clan or might be extremely beneficial.

Choose your own playstyle and stick with it because there’s no right or wrong answer :?:

From a political stand point it depends
1) does the “weaker” clan have more to gain from breaking the alliance or maintaining it

Actually that’s most of it. Like I said, and you agreed in your own roundabout argument that concluded with a conclusion very similar to my own, if the reward system is not equal enough or beneficial enough to the “weaker” clan, then they will break the alliance or drift away. This conclusion has an equivalent with a qualifier, that if the alliance has a beneficial reward scheme in which breaking the alliance hurts more than keeping it, the alliance remains.

I was a guard during the DS alliance, or part of it anyways, and it broke off because BigD rightfully didn’t want to work with people he didn’t want in res, which is completely fair. As to why these individuals were invited into DS, it’s because they had more to gain by drifting away from the alliance, and they did. After leaving they got more DL armor and weapon sets as well as EDL sets than they did in the alliance in a shorter span of time.

It’s like we both said, each clan and server needs to self evaluate and pick what works best, however to say that an alliance doesn’t work or can’t work isn’t the case. It is always possible for one to work by nature of the logic, the question is whether or not it’s beneficial for
1) the top clan that would be weakening itself through the alliance
2) the server
3) the allied clan enough that they will maintain it

If it isn’t, then an alliance shouldn’t be perused.
Gwyd got lucky, but we also opened up our banks a lot more than any other alliance thus seen in the game so far, which may be why it’s worked better and longer. Because it’s more beneficial to remain than break.


The OP, in a long post, was urging servers/clans to form “alliances” or something similar to it, although it might not always work for all servers, which you and I did seem to agree on, especially since the game is extremely different for every server.

If we took Arawn as an example, the smaller clan did want to grow apart from the dominant clan to get more drops and according to you, it worked out which is perfectly fine.

To answer the OP, based on the very diverse environment of Celtic Heroes and clans, an alliance or sharing banks between smaller and dominant clans doesn’t necessarily need to happen.
Image

Re: Aimed at top tier end game clans

#15
Froze wrote:
bob the mage wrote:
Froze wrote:
This might be missing some really huge key details and facts that I’m not going into because the thread isn’t about Arawn.


Celtic Heroes, in general, is great because the developers mainly leave the game alone to be paved the way by players, only stepping in to fix certain problems if they get out of hand. A player-driven game.

Whether it be by third-party apps or timers or databases, it was up to players alone to determine their own system for their clans, their world’s, the prices, and even gameplay.

Without any official “clan bonuses” or official “clan banks,” (Well for now at least) the only thing the game gives players regarding clans is a name, a clan list, a place to chat, and promotion/demotion powers. Anything past that (alliances, third party apps, gear distributions) is all up to players.

It’s great alliances work on your server, although through personal experiences, there’s will always be a “dominant” clan and a “weaker” clan in any alliance relationships. As the OP mentioned, all of the drops are banked through their clan bank with dominant clan leaders’ voting who gets DG, Seeds, anointed rings etc.

The difference in “power” and gear might cause discontent and lead one to break off from another on some servers. Although there been many instances in-game where the smaller clan eventually overtakes the dominant clan so ironically alliances between the dominant and smaller clan might not always be in the best interest for the smaller clan.

Basically, the point I’m making is that each server has a completely different playstyle due to how the game is ran. Alliances might work for some and might not, might be worse off for the smaller clan or might be extremely beneficial.

Choose your own playstyle and stick with it because there’s no right or wrong answer :?:

From a political stand point it depends
1) does the “weaker” clan have more to gain from breaking the alliance or maintaining it

Actually that’s most of it. Like I said, and you agreed in your own roundabout argument that concluded with a conclusion very similar to my own, if the reward system is not equal enough or beneficial enough to the “weaker” clan, then they will break the alliance or drift away. This conclusion has an equivalent with a qualifier, that if the alliance has a beneficial reward scheme in which breaking the alliance hurts more than keeping it, the alliance remains.

I was a guard during the DS alliance, or part of it anyways, and it broke off because BigD rightfully didn’t want to work with people he didn’t want in res, which is completely fair. As to why these individuals were invited into DS, it’s because they had more to gain by drifting away from the alliance, and they did. After leaving they got more DL armor and weapon sets as well as EDL sets than they did in the alliance in a shorter span of time.

It’s like we both said, each clan and server needs to self evaluate and pick what works best, however to say that an alliance doesn’t work or can’t work isn’t the case. It is always possible for one to work by nature of the logic, the question is whether or not it’s beneficial for
1) the top clan that would be weakening itself through the alliance
2) the server
3) the allied clan enough that they will maintain it

If it isn’t, then an alliance shouldn’t be perused.
Gwyd got lucky, but we also opened up our banks a lot more than any other alliance thus seen in the game so far, which may be why it’s worked better and longer. Because it’s more beneficial to remain than break.


The OP, in a long post, was urging servers/clans to form “alliances” or something similar to it, although it might not always work for all servers, which you and I did seem to agree on, especially since the game is extremely different for every server.

If we took Arawn as an example, the smaller clan did want to grow apart from the dominant clan to get more drops and according to you, it worked out which is perfectly fine.

To answer the OP, based on the very diverse environment of Celtic Heroes and clans, an alliance or sharing banks between smaller and dominant clans doesn’t necessarily need to happen.


In the long run did it work out for them? The “player” and it was only one I warned them about taking in, ended up almost destroying the smaller clan from within using members of another smaller clan to “align” with ds and infiltrate them.. which in turn lead to a big number of key memebers leaving ds and a bunch of drops to be stolen from a clan who couldn’t afford it..

Now as for my original intentions before ds didn’t heed my warning about said player.. well they were purely to help the clan grow as I had grown fond of them and their polite gameplay, hence why yes I did gift them some drops as I wanted to see them grow and hopefully they could have eventually gained the strength to work along side us.. it worked well at first but then they decided to take some players that we had kicked or had left clan (3-4 if I recall).. but it was namely one player who we refused to work with for many reasons.. at the end of the day it didn’t work out for them because they were harmed by that player way more then they were helped, thus breaking the alliance, and I refuse to make the same mistake twice..

Re: Aimed at top tier end game clans

#16
Froze wrote:
bob the mage wrote:
Froze wrote:
This might be missing some really huge key details and facts that I’m not going into because the thread isn’t about Arawn.


Celtic Heroes, in general, is great because the developers mainly leave the game alone to be paved the way by players, only stepping in to fix certain problems if they get out of hand. A player-driven game.

Whether it be by third-party apps or timers or databases, it was up to players alone to determine their own system for their clans, their world’s, the prices, and even gameplay.

Without any official “clan bonuses” or official “clan banks,” (Well for now at least) the only thing the game gives players regarding clans is a name, a clan list, a place to chat, and promotion/demotion powers. Anything past that (alliances, third party apps, gear distributions) is all up to players.

It’s great alliances work on your server, although through personal experiences, there’s will always be a “dominant” clan and a “weaker” clan in any alliance relationships. As the OP mentioned, all of the drops are banked through their clan bank with dominant clan leaders’ voting who gets DG, Seeds, anointed rings etc.

The difference in “power” and gear might cause discontent and lead one to break off from another on some servers. Although there been many instances in-game where the smaller clan eventually overtakes the dominant clan so ironically alliances between the dominant and smaller clan might not always be in the best interest for the smaller clan.

Basically, the point I’m making is that each server has a completely different playstyle due to how the game is ran. Alliances might work for some and might not, might be worse off for the smaller clan or might be extremely beneficial.

Choose your own playstyle and stick with it because there’s no right or wrong answer :?:

From a political stand point it depends
1) does the “weaker” clan have more to gain from breaking the alliance or maintaining it

Actually that’s most of it. Like I said, and you agreed in your own roundabout argument that concluded with a conclusion very similar to my own, if the reward system is not equal enough or beneficial enough to the “weaker” clan, then they will break the alliance or drift away. This conclusion has an equivalent with a qualifier, that if the alliance has a beneficial reward scheme in which breaking the alliance hurts more than keeping it, the alliance remains.

I was a guard during the DS alliance, or part of it anyways, and it broke off because BigD rightfully didn’t want to work with people he didn’t want in res, which is completely fair. As to why these individuals were invited into DS, it’s because they had more to gain by drifting away from the alliance, and they did. After leaving they got more DL armor and weapon sets as well as EDL sets than they did in the alliance in a shorter span of time.

It’s like we both said, each clan and server needs to self evaluate and pick what works best, however to say that an alliance doesn’t work or can’t work isn’t the case. It is always possible for one to work by nature of the logic, the question is whether or not it’s beneficial for
1) the top clan that would be weakening itself through the alliance
2) the server
3) the allied clan enough that they will maintain it

If it isn’t, then an alliance shouldn’t be perused.
Gwyd got lucky, but we also opened up our banks a lot more than any other alliance thus seen in the game so far, which may be why it’s worked better and longer. Because it’s more beneficial to remain than break.


The OP, in a long post, was urging servers/clans to form “alliances” or something similar to it, although it might not always work for all servers, which you and I did seem to agree on, especially since the game is extremely different for every server.

If we took Arawn as an example, the smaller clan did want to grow apart from the dominant clan to get more drops and according to you, it worked out which is perfectly fine.

To answer the OP, based on the very diverse environment of Celtic Heroes and clans, an alliance or sharing banks between smaller and dominant clans doesn’t necessarily need to happen.

I think you are right to say it doesn’t “need” to happen, however that skirts around what the OP was after. Swee was rather encouraging leaders to try and see how and if they could include others in the EG process and open up servers to healthier competition.
So yes, it doesn’t need to happen. Arawn has high enough new player count for example that losing 20 or so EG players a year hasn’t caused any long term issues and the server is still strong in numbers. Furthermore economically, the server is likely among the strongest economically because of this. Newest players tend to buy more plat than players that are all set up to the max.

So 100%, it doesn’t need to happen. However, I think swee is right to say that IF it can happen, then it could bring about benefits to the server as the whole that might not seem apparent such as increasing overall server activity, increasing the economy, bringing the server together (removes divisions) etc... And thus he is encouraging other clans and servers to evaluate. Not to form an alliance, but to see if one could be done. It’s not something from my experience most clans seek to do, not in a full extent, however it can surprisingly be beneficial to all parties involved.
Gwydion - Top Meme of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 222 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

Accepting free Phoenix eggs :shock:

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