Celtic Heroes

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Upside down approach

#1
As a long time player of this game and as a consumer of mmorpg in general; I feel the approach mentioned by tadaah today in regards to discipline is completely upside down.

I personally do not share my accounts but I have done so in other games when I was in college with roommates and feel that this does not in anyway shape or form effect the other players ability to play the game. However, harassment, grieving, and other forms of blatant activity against or toward a person in game does negatively effect another players experience in the game. This is where sever punishment should lie. This activity is what drives people away from the game. On the server I play on we are constantly having to deal with people who are cyber bullying and even though there have been temporary bans on some of those accounts it continues to happen, to the point that some people have quit over it.

On the flip side I know if a couple accounts that have been “transferred” some people on the server don’t even know they’ve been transferred accounts and the individuals playing them are helpful and contribute to the joy of the game. I would never dream of reporting these individuals because they positively effect the game.

From a business model standpoint, I think it’s a horrible idea to allow grieving and allow people to pull adds onto a boss to cause the lock group to wipe and if a punishment is handed out for name calling or cyber bullying to only give a slap on the wrist and say “please be better, it’s ok to make people question their life” but then to hand out a ban to an account that is contributing positively to the game play of others. This type of mindset WILL be the down fall of your game, not the slow release of new content.

In a black and white letter of the law approach toward enforcement of the EULA, which is what you are talking about, you will ruin your own game. If this is the approach you are taking then clans across all servers will fall: not because of end game accounts but because of clan bank accounts. As we read 6 weeks ago, clans have shared accounts in which end game raid items are stored so they can be distributed fairly to those in the clan. These accounts have multiple people accessing them, as they should; and under your statement today those accounts will be permanently banned. From a legal interpretation of the EULA enforcement of your policy MUST have the same effect of these accounts as it does on a lvl 220 account.
Last edited by Sweefish on Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
World - Gwydion
Clan - Relentless
Relentlessly killing Bloodthorn in search of the hidden helmet that is buried deep in the coding of RNG. We would love to see you join us on our quest for the hidden helmet.

Re: Upside down approach

#2
Brooooo its "grieFing" not "grieVing" btw. Different words with 2 completely different meanings, i see a lot of CH players making the same mistake like wtf yoooooooooo. Spread the word.
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Re: Upside down approach

#4
Autocorrect on grieving and frankly it causes a person to grieve ;).

And yes according to the EULA and what tadaah posted today shared accounts are bannable there is no specification of an account that is used by a clan
World - Gwydion
Clan - Relentless
Relentlessly killing Bloodthorn in search of the hidden helmet that is buried deep in the coding of RNG. We would love to see you join us on our quest for the hidden helmet.

Re: Upside down approach

#5
Sweefish wrote:Autocorrect on grieving and frankly it causes a person to grieve ;).

And yes according to the EULA and what tadaah posted today shared accounts are bannable there is no specification of an account that is used by a clan


Can you add link to Tadaaah's post about shared clan bank? I saw post about selling account and black market but didnt see anything about clan bank account be bannable.

Re: Upside down approach

#6
I doubt otm would ban clan banks...The reason clans create shared banks is so leaders can share in the responsibility of logging them and so it is a collective account, not that of an individual, in the case that something might happen with that person. If they were to implement a feature in game for clan banking, there would no longer be a need for the shared accounts, but until then we’re stuck with them.

However I do sincerely hope that otm will not be taking harassment/bullying/abuse cases lightly. I will give a hypothetical example. Let’s say Player A screams horribly derogatory things about Player B and whispers them much of the same. Player A is clearly not a good person to have on a server. Yet under the new punishment system, Player A would get a slap on the wrist with a note telling them “don’t do this again” and not even a temporary ban? I find it hard to believe that otm would be that lenient, so I hope I am misreading the post...
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Re: Upside down approach

#7
Totally agree with Swee. I hope that is not even close to what was meant and personally I don't see any problem with account sharing, it's the account owners risk and shouldn't be such a big deal. Bullying and harassment on the other hand should be taken extremely seriously, it effects peoples lives and can have a hugely negative impact on peoples mental well-being.
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Re: Upside down approach

#8
Eury, while I agree with you on account sharing: the EULA is very clear that we are to not share our passwords. My concern was that if the focus, as it was mentioned by tadaah in his first paragraph, was to enforce the EULA - specifically the part about what we do with the account in relation with other players using or having access to our account - then all shared accounts would be in violation and thus fall under the ban hammer that was mentioned.
World - Gwydion
Clan - Relentless
Relentlessly killing Bloodthorn in search of the hidden helmet that is buried deep in the coding of RNG. We would love to see you join us on our quest for the hidden helmet.

Re: Upside down approach

#9
I mean, if you really want OTM to ban clan banks...


They’ve said this before, they are willing to turn a blind eye to clan banks that are solely used for storing clan items. I hope it doesn’t have to be explained that there is a difference between sharing a lvl 1 bank and a level 180 rogue that can be logged in at almost every snorri spawn to help instalock it.

Maybe if any of you guys are lawyers, you can be a little more clear on this, but my understanding of the EULA is that any action that breaks the ToC is subject to OTM judgement. That means that they decide what the punishment should be. In regards to:

Sweefish wrote:These accounts have multiple people accessing them, as they should; and under your statement today those accounts will be permanently banned. From a legal interpretation of the EULA enforcement of your policy MUST have the same effect of these accounts as it does on a lvl 220 account.


OTM is not under any legal binding to ban ALL accounts that they know are shared. They can, however, punish them as they see fit, and hurting the game experience for others is a pretty good reason imo.


I think a lot of people may be missing the whole point of sharing accounts being illegal here. It’s not really out of worry that people will spam or harass others under a different name (although that is a good reason), it’s not even to avoid people losing their accounts,
it’s to avoid unfair advantages in game.

For example, if I were to have say a level 225 rogue fully geared out with the best gear possible, I would be a great asset to my clan...when I am playing. When I’m sleeping or working, and can’t log my account, then the clan has to make do without me. However, if I shared my account, then other people could log my rogue when I can’t, meaning that anyone we try to compete against has to go up against a character they shouldn’t have to.

I hope I’m making myself clear...I understand why you would want to share accounts to help your clan at bosses, but that goes against the entire point of the game of leveling up characters to use yourself.



tl’dr:
1. OTM can choose punishments based on the action.
2. They have said before that they choose to not punish shared banks, because it doesn’t impact the game for other players.
3. Y’all are ignoring the main reason OTM has these rules in place.


*edit* I just reread the original post, and realized that the main focus was on cyberbullying and griefing. Those are both wrong too, and OTM definitely needs to be paying attention to those issues as well. For people dealing with harsh words, there’s a great block button that works splendidly. Griefing bosses on the other hand can’t be fixed, but to be 100% fair. It’s not technically against the ToS from what I can tell. It’s horrible and a ***tty thing to do, but not really illegal imo. OTM might be able to get people for malicious behavior or something, but it’s a very rocky area, since they are using actuall game mechanics.

So many issues, and no matter what you do, players hate you. If you are too lenient, then the good players complain, if you are too harsh, the punished complain. (If you are in the middle, then both sides complain). I’m so glad I don’t work as a support member...and kudos to OTM support for marching on!!!


Rant finished, come at me :roll:
Eragon123 - lvl 220 ranger
Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
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Re: Upside down approach

#10
Eurydice wrote:Totally agree with Swee. I hope that is not even close to what was meant and personally I don't see any problem with account sharing, it's the account owners risk and shouldn't be such a big deal. Bullying and harassment on the other hand should be taken extremely seriously, it effects peoples lives and can have a hugely negative impact on peoples mental well-being.

As long as they don't come crying onto the forums, it always happens and what can we say other than "it's your fault".
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