Celtic Heroes

The Official Forum for Celtic Heroes, the 3D MMORPG for iOS and Android Devices

Re: Will the Frozen / DL Bottleneck be addressed?

#21
Wardon-CH wrote:
H3ROBigG wrote:My question is this -

Does anyone still camp Stonefang? We certainly did at one point. How long is the respawn?

Why can't frozen work the exact same way as any meteoric boss? We stopped farming meteoric years ago. Logically, we should be in a similar position by now with, at the very least, frozen. The only difference that I can tell is respawn times. Reduce them. Or should we increase the respawn timer on meteoric/warden bosses because those are too easy?

Additionally, 180 5 star needs to drop crowns just as often as 215 5 star drops runes. Eggs urns and gems need to be removed from 180 loot table. And 215 6 star needs a guaranteed rune, just as snorri is a guaranteed crown.

I also still believe an additional guaranteed crown-dropping boss with shorter respawn times would be the most productive solution, as well as increasing 5 and 6 star spawn rates. This is very important.

OR

Create new game dynamics that don't rely so heavily on players being geared with DL/EDL weapons.
New buy-able alternatives, such as lux weapons and armor that grant divine damage. Raid loot which includes weapons that have a Divine Strike proc chance. Not necessarily better than quest armor and weapons, but viable enough that you can gear lockers and compete with dominant clans that way.

OR

Make the quest armor and weapons tradeable so we can get them off at least some of the 100+ inactive toons in every server.

Not a big fan of the buying idea. I am a firm believer that the best gear should be earned from bosses, something that hasn't been implemented, crafting or some other alternative that requires time and effort. If there weren't the option to buy in game gold with money I would be all for being able to buy gear as its a bit of a grind for players to get gold.

Making the quest armor and weapons tradeable is something I am a little on the fence about. I think it would be more beneficial if players could break down their old armors from the quest line as LadyNymeria suggested. Not a bad idea by any means but I feel like this could cause some problems.

The fix for frozen is a good idea, its a very outdated armor quest in terms of when it was put in and it makes sense. Only problem I see with this is it brings the bottleneck from frozen to dl and makes the dl bottleneck even worse. Though I don't think that spawn times are the big issue causing the bottleneck it's still a factor that if changed can help relieve the problem.

I definitely agree that increasing spawn rates for 5 and 6 stars should be looked at and additionally fixing the drop rates for them. The bottleneck, in my eyes, started because of class specific drops and expanded with the increase of players.


A major roadblock that is fueling this bottleneck is the need to create locker toons capable of competing at mordris and necro, so that we can gear our mains. This means that we are forced to choose between using yellow crowns on level 200 rangers, to win locks, or level 220+ rangers to succeed on proteus and gelebron (and, often to appease mains so they don't rage quit). Not every server has this issue I'm aware, but many do. Implementing buy-able weapons that aren't better than EDL, but good enough to use on lockers, would help. Anything that doesn't give divine damage simply won't be viable, so raid weapons with divine strike proc is something to at least consider. The major problem here is in the lock/boss dynamics itself, divine damage is too vital at endgame and you can't win locks over groups that have DL/EDL weapons. This system supports clans that are established, have been farming for years, and are high in numbers. The only 3 solutions are:
A) redo the entire lock system and divine damage fluctuation
B) create alternative ways to obtain divine damage, through raid boss drops or lux vendors
C) make DL/EDL weapons much easier to obtain by implementing the feedback mentioned in this topic

I agree with LadyNymeria as well. In fact, I like everyone's ideas. The point is clear being that something needs to change so that everyone can start enjoying more endgame content.
World - Sulis
Clan - 1337

H3ROsRogue - lvl 220 rogue
H3ROsRanger - lvl 190 ranger
H3ROsMage - lvl 215 mage
H3ROsDruid - lvl 197 druid
H3ROsWarrior - lvl 200 warrior

All characters full DL/EDL

Est. 2011

Re: Will the Frozen / DL Bottleneck be addressed?

#22
LivingArawn wrote:
bob the mage wrote:If spawn time increased it wouldn’t change how many drops you get.


I agree with that part of your statement bob, just changing spawn times might not resolve the issue, if still a majority of 4s dl spawn and drop nothing. I liked the idea of a 3 2 1 drop system, for 6*, 5*, And 4* respectively. There have been a lot of good ideas thrown around, I trust otm to find a reasonable solution.


Good idea, additionally I'd like to see more dmg on those dl bosses personally either to fight the rogue class and make other class viabale for lock too.
Whaaaat 2011 Arawn...memorieeees.
Nightmaaarree
Unit & Colours Fidelis

Re: Will the Frozen / DL Bottleneck be addressed?

#23
H3ROBigG wrote:
Wardon-CH wrote:
H3ROBigG wrote:My question is this -

Does anyone still camp Stonefang? We certainly did at one point. How long is the respawn?

Why can't frozen work the exact same way as any meteoric boss? We stopped farming meteoric years ago. Logically, we should be in a similar position by now with, at the very least, frozen. The only difference that I can tell is respawn times. Reduce them. Or should we increase the respawn timer on meteoric/warden bosses because those are too easy?

Additionally, 180 5 star needs to drop crowns just as often as 215 5 star drops runes. Eggs urns and gems need to be removed from 180 loot table. And 215 6 star needs a guaranteed rune, just as snorri is a guaranteed crown.

I also still believe an additional guaranteed crown-dropping boss with shorter respawn times would be the most productive solution, as well as increasing 5 and 6 star spawn rates. This is very important.

OR

Create new game dynamics that don't rely so heavily on players being geared with DL/EDL weapons.
New buy-able alternatives, such as lux weapons and armor that grant divine damage. Raid loot which includes weapons that have a Divine Strike proc chance. Not necessarily better than quest armor and weapons, but viable enough that you can gear lockers and compete with dominant clans that way.

OR

Make the quest armor and weapons tradeable so we can get them off at least some of the 100+ inactive toons in every server.

Not a big fan of the buying idea. I am a firm believer that the best gear should be earned from bosses, something that hasn't been implemented, crafting or some other alternative that requires time and effort. If there weren't the option to buy in game gold with money I would be all for being able to buy gear as its a bit of a grind for players to get gold.

Making the quest armor and weapons tradeable is something I am a little on the fence about. I think it would be more beneficial if players could break down their old armors from the quest line as LadyNymeria suggested. Not a bad idea by any means but I feel like this could cause some problems.

The fix for frozen is a good idea, its a very outdated armor quest in terms of when it was put in and it makes sense. Only problem I see with this is it brings the bottleneck from frozen to dl and makes the dl bottleneck even worse. Though I don't think that spawn times are the big issue causing the bottleneck it's still a factor that if changed can help relieve the problem.

I definitely agree that increasing spawn rates for 5 and 6 stars should be looked at and additionally fixing the drop rates for them. The bottleneck, in my eyes, started because of class specific drops and expanded with the increase of players.


A major roadblock that is fueling this bottleneck is the need to create locker toons capable of competing at mordris and necro, so that we can gear our mains. This means that we are forced to choose between using yellow crowns on level 200 rangers, to win locks, or level 220+ rangers to succeed on proteus and gelebron (and, often to appease mains so they don't rage quit). Not every server has this issue I'm aware, but many do. Implementing buy-able weapons that aren't better than EDL, but good enough to use on lockers, would help. Anything that doesn't give divine damage simply won't be viable, so raid weapons with divine strike proc is something to at least consider. The major problem here is in the lock/boss dynamics itself, divine damage is too vital at endgame and you can't win locks over groups that have DL/EDL weapons. This system supports clans that are established, have been farming for years, and are high in numbers. The only 3 solutions are:
A) redo the entire lock system and divine damage fluctuation
B) create alternative ways to obtain divine damage, through raid boss drops or lux vendors
C) make DL/EDL weapons much easier to obtain by implementing the feedback mentioned in this topic

I agree with LadyNymeria as well. In fact, I like everyone's ideas. The point is clear being that something needs to change so that everyone can start enjoying more endgame content.


I see a lot of players that hurry and level as fast as they can instead of slow leveling and waiting till they have their quest armor and weapons done before leveling. Obviously over leveling optimal lock level hurts your chances and the developers aren't going to change things except for the worse, so players have the choice to be patient and wait or level and then go back and make a lock toon.
Zyz 217 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

Re: Will the Frozen / DL Bottleneck be addressed?

#25
The only time a DL “bottleneck” occurs is when a clan dominates the bosses and another struggles to lock them to get drops. Otherwise there is a decent share of drops between clans and it is less of a bottleneck and more of a challenge to getting EG gear.

Adding more 6*s? If other clan locks 2% of 6*s for example, around arawn stat, then yes they would get a few more, but to say that helps the bottleneck is pretty ridiculous.

Shorter spawn time? It just means you have to camp the boss more often, something no one wants and will just add more meaning to the name “Celtic camping.”

The point is the bottleneck doesn’t exist because the game is flawed heavily. A bottleneck would be, for example, if DG was required to move on. It’s drop rates are so low that maybe 20-25 sets are possible a year.
I get adjusting frozen due to player increase, specifically the orb problem... but dL doesn’t really have a bottleneck. Any of the “fixes” will just result in more of the same.


Furthermore, bottlenecks at lower level armor bosses are ESSENTIAL to any MMO, otherwise players will speed level to EG, get sick of waiting for EG gear, or get geared if difficulty for game is low, get bored, and quit.
Bottlenecks force players to progress at a much more reasonable pace so they spend time at each stage, EG isn’t the only part of the game, otherwise why not just start everyone off at EG...
Gwydion - Recruit of Relentless!
Stubborn 176+ Warrior

Arawn-Inactive
Bobthemage 227
and other toons

Come see me on Youtube

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shout out to Eurydice! :P

Re: Will the Frozen / DL Bottleneck be addressed?

#26
bob the mage wrote:
LivingArawn wrote:
bob the mage wrote:I disagree on the bottlenecks. Unless you are clanless (which will prevent you from moving up to EDL/EG anyways) the bottleneck at frozen is minor and there is almost no bottleneck at DL, except for weapons, and even then its a very small bottleneck.

If you remove all bottlenecks the game loses a large degree of its difficulty and also it rushes players to EG, which leaves a large group of bored EG players who then subsequently quit the game. Every time it has become easier to level, easier to get armor, or easier in general to play the game this pattern is seen.

Frozen I can understand reducing some spawn times and making orbs more available, like a guaranteed orb from 4*'s and 6*'s to drop a crest and 2 orbs, or 2 crests and 4 orbs, but leave DL alone, there really isn't a bottleneck here. All faster spawn times will do is make clans incapable of enjoying new content due to them having to camp on their alts now and cause for a rush of players to EG...


Whatever magical server you are in must exist in a separate dimension from Arawn, as most assuredly we do have a bottleneck issue here. Count your blessings that you do not have to deal with this issue.

Increasing spawn times wouldn’t fix it. The bottleneck DS expierences has to do with not locking really any of the 6*s. If spawn time increased it wouldn’t change how many drops you get.


easy answer to the solution is rogues and mages just do too much damage and gives incentives for others to make 3 lock rogues or mages to out lock others who dont have the time or resources for that. granted i do love lock rogues.
Brevity is the soul of wit so i will talk your ears off.

Re: Will the Frozen / DL Bottleneck be addressed?

#27
bob the mage wrote:The only time a DL “bottleneck” occurs is when a clan dominates the bosses and another struggles to lock them to get drops. Otherwise there is a decent share of drops between clans and it is less of a bottleneck and more of a challenge to getting EG gear.

Adding more 6*s? If other clan locks 2% of 6*s for example, around arawn stat, then yes they would get a few more, but to say that helps the bottleneck is pretty ridiculous.

Shorter spawn time? It just means you have to camp the boss more often, something no one wants and will just add more meaning to the name “Celtic camping.”

The point is the bottleneck doesn’t exist because the game is flawed heavily. A bottleneck would be, for example, if DG was required to move on. It’s drop rates are so low that maybe 20-25 sets are possible a year.
I get adjusting frozen due to player increase, specifically the orb problem... but dL doesn’t really have a bottleneck. Any of the “fixes” will just result in more of the same.


Furthermore, bottlenecks at lower level armor bosses are ESSENTIAL to any MMO, otherwise players will speed level to EG, get sick of waiting for EG gear, or get geared if difficulty for game is low, get bored, and quit.
Bottlenecks force players to progress at a much more reasonable pace so they spend time at each stage, EG isn’t the only part of the game, otherwise why not just start everyone off at EG...


DL is a bottleneck, just like frozen, because there's no consistency. When we have 20+ toons without weapons and snorri spawns once, twice, sometimes not at all, per day, it's a bottleneck, period. Winning or losing locks does not have anything to do with bottlenecks, it's the fact snorri is the only option for obtaining crowns and the spawn rate is not consistent enough to meet current demand.

The maximum amount of 4 and 5 stars than can spawn before a snorri should be limited. So that it's guaranteed to spawn every day, multiple times. That's step one.

Step two, either decrease the respawn timers so that people who NEED the drops can choose to camp more, or add additional bosses that are guaranteed to drop crowns, with consistent spawn rates. Nobody is forcing you to camp more often to gear someone else.

Your clan in arawn is not a typical endgame clan and it doesn't face the same problems as 90% of the clans in this game.
World - Sulis
Clan - 1337

H3ROsRogue - lvl 220 rogue
H3ROsRanger - lvl 190 ranger
H3ROsMage - lvl 215 mage
H3ROsDruid - lvl 197 druid
H3ROsWarrior - lvl 200 warrior

All characters full DL/EDL

Est. 2011

Re: Will the Frozen / DL Bottleneck be addressed?

#28
H3ROBigG wrote:
bob the mage wrote:The only time a DL “bottleneck” occurs is when a clan dominates the bosses and another struggles to lock them to get drops. Otherwise there is a decent share of drops between clans and it is less of a bottleneck and more of a challenge to getting EG gear.

Adding more 6*s? If other clan locks 2% of 6*s for example, around arawn stat, then yes they would get a few more, but to say that helps the bottleneck is pretty ridiculous.

Shorter spawn time? It just means you have to camp the boss more often, something no one wants and will just add more meaning to the name “Celtic camping.”

The point is the bottleneck doesn’t exist because the game is flawed heavily. A bottleneck would be, for example, if DG was required to move on. It’s drop rates are so low that maybe 20-25 sets are possible a year.
I get adjusting frozen due to player increase, specifically the orb problem... but dL doesn’t really have a bottleneck. Any of the “fixes” will just result in more of the same.


Furthermore, bottlenecks at lower level armor bosses are ESSENTIAL to any MMO, otherwise players will speed level to EG, get sick of waiting for EG gear, or get geared if difficulty for game is low, get bored, and quit.
Bottlenecks force players to progress at a much more reasonable pace so they spend time at each stage, EG isn’t the only part of the game, otherwise why not just start everyone off at EG...


DL is a bottleneck, just like frozen, because there's no consistency. When we have 20+ toons without weapons and snorri spawns once, twice, sometimes not at all, per day, it's a bottleneck, period. Winning or losing locks does not have anything to do with bottlenecks, it's the fact snorri is the only option for obtaining crowns and the spawn rate is not consistent enough to meet current demand.

The maximum amount of 4 and 5 stars than can spawn before a snorri should be limited. So that it's guaranteed to spawn every day, multiple times. That's step one.

Step two, either decrease the respawn timers so that people who NEED the drops can choose to camp more, or add additional bosses that are guaranteed to drop crowns, with consistent spawn rates. Nobody is forcing you to camp more often to gear someone else.

Your clan in arawn is not a typical endgame clan and it doesn't face the same problems as 90% of the clans in this game.


Don't disagree with Big Bobby B! He is a highly respected member of the community, and an elite member of the Closed Beta Testers, a job that he did flawlessly I might add.
Hoping for the day when the glitchy Pict and Jotun charms are updated. :D

.
Image
.

Re: Will the Frozen / DL Bottleneck be addressed?

#30
H3ROBigG wrote:
DL is a bottleneck, just like frozen, because there's no consistency. When we have 20+ toons without weapons and snorri spawns once, twice, sometimes not at all, per day, it's a bottleneck, period. Winning or losing locks does not have anything to do with bottlenecks, it's the fact snorri is the only option for obtaining crowns and the spawn rate is not consistent enough to meet current demand.

The maximum amount of 4 and 5 stars than can spawn before a snorri should be limited. So that it's guaranteed to spawn every day, multiple times. That's step one.

Step two, either decrease the respawn timers so that people who NEED the drops can choose to camp more, or add additional bosses that are guaranteed to drop crowns, with consistent spawn rates. Nobody is forcing you to camp more often to gear someone else.

Your clan in arawn is not a typical endgame clan and it doesn't face the same problems as 90% of the clans in this game.


I cant speak for other servers but I personally dont see a problem with the current spawns and drop rates. For us dl weapons are like a status symbol, those that put in the work get rewarded, you dont see innactives or castle campers chilling with dl and edl weps. Which i think is the way it should be.

Before seed haters start spamming on this (they always do when a seed member posts) I personally earned my dl dag and my full dl set outside of seed as have many others so dont spam about how its impossible and seed is killing you, I put in the work as have many others and we earned dl and even edl outside seed this (isnt just a dom clan thing). If you want something you gota put in the work for it its as simple as that.

Dl edl and DG and there respected weapons are endgame items they arent meant to be handed out to every single person who wants it, they are for the people who work hard and earn them.

The one thing i will agree with is the frozen boss timers, however i liked an idea posted in feedback a while back I believe, that requested that frozen no longer be a requirement for dl. This removes the over reliance for endgame players to obtain frozen which will make the bosses more accessible for smaller clans who are actually at frozen lvls (not 180 lock rogues missing purp bears)

Edit~ we get a decent ammount of crowns off sreng so try that :p
World: Crom Clan: Seed Profession: Ice mage

Krummy9552~220+ Rogue
Krumz~220+ Mage
Krums~190 Ranger
Krummy~190 Druid
Krumzor~170 Warrior

¨He who cannot put his thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of dispute¨ ~Friedrich Nietzsche

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: GodLike and 9 guests