Celtic Heroes

The Official Forum for Celtic Heroes, the 3D MMORPG for iOS Devices

Re: What is the most fair system (without using DKP)

#11
Chaotic wrote:I have experienced bidding dkp, dkp with decay and just set prices that is dependant on your Gear Point. Similar to the Avalon system. I prefer bidding, dkp w decay ensures gear stays within the elite and takes a long time to catch up.


Not true. Active newer members actually shoot on top of the dkp faster than bidding systems. Dkp with decay ensures the most active get the gear, not the long time members who aren't as active but have accumulate tons of points over the years.
Image


There are two types of people in this world: Those who crave closure

A business is more profitable if they don't gouge and piss off customers.

Re: What is the most fair system (without using DKP)

#12
Aileron wrote:DKP doesn't necessarily have to be bidding. Actually bidding defeats the purpose of dkp. It's actually the worst version of dkp there is, imo.

Ah never knew there were 2 types of dkp as the bidding version is the one my clan uses. How does decay work?
Zkills level 111 warrior, Proud general/last active member of the beloved KodiakReavers of Belenus.
Also known as Mr. President of Belenus

Re: What is the most fair system (without using DKP)

#13
Zkills wrote:
Aileron wrote:DKP doesn't necessarily have to be bidding. Actually bidding defeats the purpose of dkp. It's actually the worst version of dkp there is, imo.

Ah never knew there were 2 types of dkp as the bidding version is the one my clan uses. How does decay work?

Decay is still, usually, a bidding system. Just your amount of DKP decays over time.
Arawn-Resurgence
Bobthemage 226
Apopotisis, Phenomenon, Bobsassistant, Postmortem, Sarcasm...

Come see me on Youtube

Resurgence of Arawn is now recruiting!

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Re: What is the most fair system (without using DKP)

#14
Aileron wrote:
Chaotic wrote:I have experienced bidding dkp, dkp with decay and just set prices that is dependant on your Gear Point. Similar to the Avalon system. I prefer bidding, dkp w decay ensures gear stays within the elite and takes a long time to catch up.


Not true. Active newer members actually shoot on top of the dkp faster than bidding systems. Dkp with decay ensures the most active get the gear, not the long time members who aren't as active but have accumulate tons of points over the years.

Very active newer members have a tough climb over people who have been raid logging for years. Bidding ensures that the rarest drops cycle through the active players instead of it all going to one person. Both systems have merit, I personally prefer bidding. Bidding with decay is my favourite.
Chaotic of Nuada
Clan: Chaos

I, like the Titans and Gods rise from primordial Chaos; to rule.

Re: What is the most fair system (without using DKP)

#15
Zkills wrote:
Aileron wrote:DKP doesn't necessarily have to be bidding. Actually bidding defeats the purpose of dkp. It's actually the worst version of dkp there is, imo.

Ah never knew there were 2 types of dkp as the bidding version is the one my clan uses. How does decay work?


There are several types of dkp systems. Decay is just a feature to combat points inflation.

These are the more popular/common ones:

1, Traditional - you earn points by raiding. you pay points for gear with fixed prices
2. Bidding - you earn points by raiding, you bid on gear using your points. prices vary of course.
3. Zero sum dkp - members earn points based on amount of points spent on gear for a raid
4. Suicide Kings - round robin system, top player go to bottom of list after receiving an item
5. Priority system aka EP/GP - player priority for an item is measured based on activity and amount of gear already taken

Avalon uses #5, i think it addresses a lot of issues inherent in the other systems such as collusion, especially in bidding type systems.
Image


There are two types of people in this world: Those who crave closure

A business is more profitable if they don't gouge and piss off customers.

Re: What is the most fair system (without using DKP)

#16
Chaotic wrote:
Aileron wrote:
Chaotic wrote:I have experienced bidding dkp, dkp with decay and just set prices that is dependant on your Gear Point. Similar to the Avalon system. I prefer bidding, dkp w decay ensures gear stays within the elite and takes a long time to catch up.


Not true. Active newer members actually shoot on top of the dkp faster than bidding systems. Dkp with decay ensures the most active get the gear, not the long time members who aren't as active but have accumulate tons of points over the years.

Very active newer members have a tough climb over people who have been raid logging for years. Bidding ensures that the rarest drops cycle through the active players instead of it all going to one person. Both systems have merit, I personally prefer bidding. Bidding with decay is my favourite.



Idk about traditional DKP systems but that's not how ours works.

There's a rota that resets every X amount of days so old time players don't have tonnes compared to new clannies.

Ail'l correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that's how ours works.
Elsroth - 220+ Mage - Clan Avalon

There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: What is the most fair system (without using DKP)

#18
Honestly, I like the gear auction system that Havoc uses. Each boss, boss camp, and boss camping time is worth a certain amount of HKP (Havoc kill points), and about every two weeks, we have an auction for all the items we have accumulated in that two weeks. (DL/EDL/DG is decided by leadership) The leadership decides the minimum bid (usually about a tenth of what it ends up going for), and the bid increment (how much you have to top the last bid by. Additionally, there is a function on our website that extends the time of the item an additional five minutes if a bid is placed within the last five minutes of the auction. This feature prevents last-minute bid sniping. This overall system allows new members to accumulate HKP as fast as any more senior member, and allows them to bid on whatever item that they think they can afford. Items that are less powerful go for less in the auction, and more powerful items get larger bids, and usually go to the senior players that are more active. HKP is calculated for each toon individually, so the characters that show up to a boss are the ones geared, instead of alts that are never used. There's no decay, no seniority factor, and no leadership bias. More active players get better gear, simple as that. In a pinch, we have run the auction thru a Line chat and in game mail, but it could also be done with a Google document edited by one leader and viewed by everyone (submitting bids by text/Line/Band pm), or by a website like ours is. We have a designated Line chat that we post boss attendance and camping time in, and Seela records it all in one go over a few days, but you could also have a running total updated daily on a Line Note or a Google doc. IMO this is the fairest system. It might require some maintenance, but I personally think it is well worth it.
.
Image
.

Re: What is the most fair system (without using DKP)

#19
You guys actually record the amount of time someone spends camping? How does that work? At a camp with 20 people you would have to record at what time each person logged. Or what about someone who camps for 1 hour waiting for a boss, they get a bunch of HKP even if they were afk the whole time because there's no way to tell.
Chaotic of Nuada
Clan: Chaos

I, like the Titans and Gods rise from primordial Chaos; to rule.

Re: What is the most fair system (without using DKP)

#20
Only problem I have with ail’s #5 is gen subjectivity can weigh in.
Bidding systems take this out. But overall all 5 systems are far superior to rolling, and which one is best ultimately comes down to personal preferences and server preferences.

Sadly but understandably these preferences typically are whatever favors you the most. I am the oldest Fire Mage on arawn so I have a bias against decay, but nonetheless I think it’s a good idea. Also I’m not a leader anymore so I prefer a system where it’s out of the leaders hands.
Arawn-Resurgence
Bobthemage 226
Apopotisis, Phenomenon, Bobsassistant, Postmortem, Sarcasm...

Come see me on Youtube

Resurgence of Arawn is now recruiting!

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Coman and 17 guests