I'd like to add or help with your proposal so that it may one day actually serve as a rough guideline for the Morrigan frontier. First off, I get it..we are the Hatfields and McCoys. Bad blood, and both sides believe themselves to be the more righteous in this feud that overlays our coexistence. I'm not pointing fingers, and my tone will remain neutral out of respect for the forums and Muldar.
First - the first directive states that there is no such thing as griefing before lock is achieved. I think this should be changed to no griefing period, even during competition for lock. During lock all relevant dps toons should be focused on the target. If the door is left open to allow griefing during lock, it will be exploited. I don't think there should be any room for griefing in the no griefing agreement. If I have misinterpreted the first rule, then I do think that no griefing before or after lock should be emphasized.
Second - The second directive states that if a clan griefs after losing lock, the winning clan should get a free kill with no second lock battle. I do not disagree with this suggestion, but there is no supporting framework to this directive, and thus it is hard to agree to. Who decides if a grief occurs? How do we collect and determine sufficient proof that a grief took place? Would we have pre-appointed sheriffs in each clan approved by the opposing clan? How quickly would the call be made as the sought after spawn sits there? Without a process, it's just going to result in what we've seen in previous locked threads.
Lastly - how would we also then setup checks and balances to verify that what each clan is supposed to be doing, is happening to satisfaction of both sides? If there is a dispute that happens outside a lock and kill, how is that settled?
I honestly think any code of the server is going to require frequent communications between both sides. In absolute honesty, that is the greatest challenge here. We simply can't speak to each other yet without some sort of disapproving tone eminating from our words. Thanks for reading this, hope it sheds some kind of light of what may be on our minds when reading your proposal.
Aeslyn
Havoc
Re: No Griefing Proposal - one Havoc's perspective
#2I do not know how often you participate in lock battles, but until the boss gets locked, it's full chaos.
There is no way to monitor what each clan is doing. Is someone dragging adds? Is some warrior taunting and facing the boss to the dps? While the answer is most likely yes, how do you differentiate that from other instances when adds are loose or the boss is running around killing everyone because the main tank died? One can also argue that it is a valid tactic to kill your opponents during lock battle.
So to make it simple, if both clans are still fighting for lock, you cannot say one clan is interfering with the other clan.
As to your second point, I was hoping that any clan participating in this peace agreement would be honorable enough to abide by the rules. If the losing clan would simply clear out of the area and not interfere, then there shouldn't be any problems. Individuals may accidentally get in necro lifesteal range or perhaps aggro mordris adds or hrung adds, and doesn't necessarily be grounds for griefing. Each raid there is usually an officer from either clan, or someone senior enough to speak for the clan, can rectify those problems and tell folks to move out or else might be construed as griefing. Of course, that would only work if clan members could follow direct orders and not do whatever they please. If the winning clan sees something amiss, they can always point it out and have the other clan fix it before it escalates into full griefing.
I'm not sure I understand your last point. If every clan follows the rules then it should be satisfactory for all parties. Any frequent violations should be reported to the clan chief or officers and it's their responsibility to fix it. or enforce disciplinary actions to offenders.
Every members actions reflect upon their clan. If someone is a habitual griefer who can do whatever they wish without any consequences or punishment from their clan leadership obviously shows that 1) clan leadership has no authority over their members or 2) clan leadership is in favor of and condone griefing.
There is no way to monitor what each clan is doing. Is someone dragging adds? Is some warrior taunting and facing the boss to the dps? While the answer is most likely yes, how do you differentiate that from other instances when adds are loose or the boss is running around killing everyone because the main tank died? One can also argue that it is a valid tactic to kill your opponents during lock battle.
So to make it simple, if both clans are still fighting for lock, you cannot say one clan is interfering with the other clan.
As to your second point, I was hoping that any clan participating in this peace agreement would be honorable enough to abide by the rules. If the losing clan would simply clear out of the area and not interfere, then there shouldn't be any problems. Individuals may accidentally get in necro lifesteal range or perhaps aggro mordris adds or hrung adds, and doesn't necessarily be grounds for griefing. Each raid there is usually an officer from either clan, or someone senior enough to speak for the clan, can rectify those problems and tell folks to move out or else might be construed as griefing. Of course, that would only work if clan members could follow direct orders and not do whatever they please. If the winning clan sees something amiss, they can always point it out and have the other clan fix it before it escalates into full griefing.
I'm not sure I understand your last point. If every clan follows the rules then it should be satisfactory for all parties. Any frequent violations should be reported to the clan chief or officers and it's their responsibility to fix it. or enforce disciplinary actions to offenders.
Every members actions reflect upon their clan. If someone is a habitual griefer who can do whatever they wish without any consequences or punishment from their clan leadership obviously shows that 1) clan leadership has no authority over their members or 2) clan leadership is in favor of and condone griefing.
