Celtic Heroes

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Complaining Guide

#1
I've seen a lot of complaint posts lately, so I thought I would repost this one back from 2012. Obviously I can't bump the original post because it would be a necropost :lol:. I still think it's a great post though, and that we should revisit what it has to say about us and how we go about affecting positive change in this game

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Caliban wrote:Complaining Guide


This is a likely story. It is not 'true'. I do not recommend treating it as if it were true.

In general there are three types of complaint.

1- recreational complaining
2- chronic complaining
3- commitment based complaining

Recreational Complaining:
This is complaining for fun. We do it with friends all the time. We do not expect anything to change necessarily. It is like complaining about the weather or refereeing in a game. Some Trolling could even be seen as a version of this.

How to recreationally complain:
Well, you don't actually expect the weather to change do you? So do it up! Make it ridiculously big. Plan to get exactly what you want from this, which is entertainment.

Chronic Complaining:
This is when a person or group has become self identified with complaining. If they stopped complaining you would be like "who are you and what have done with so and so?" This can take the form of 'role lock' in a group where one person gets locked into the role of being the angry complainer. All responsibility for anger and complaint in the group falls on that person. If they stop other people will initially feel betrayed and complain about that they stopped.

How to chronically complain:
First you must believe in an us/them or me/it dynamic. Assuming a zero sum game in which any benefit to something else is a loss to you also helps greatly. Add a dash of unexamined entitlement and the assumption that you know and they do not. The basis of this is that it is really always someone else's fault, pretty much no matter what is happening... Though it is possible to establish a kind of me/it relationship about yourself and always complain about yourself as well. Whatever is happening, it is a problem and it is their fault. It is useful to very rarely break the pattern in order to then reinforce the pattern. You must consider yourself to be fully at the effect of immutable circumstance. Once you have utterly persuaded yourself that this is the case, then your only recourse is to complain. Plan to get exactly what you want from this which is basically reinforcing your opinion that you are right and they are wrong. Say that you expect change to occur, but do not really expect it, since you are more interested in successfully complaining than in contributing to any meaningful change. Assert, repeatedly, that your complaint has not been heard and complain about that. If you are skilled you can get about 3-4 levels of simultaneous complaints going from the initial complaint. When a troll becomes self identified as such, then trolling takes this form.

Commitment Based Complaining:
This is when you are actually committed to some positive change occurring and you are willing to act, adjust your own thoughts and actions accordingly. You also understand your own role and participation in the thing being complained about, or are at least willing to consider that.

How to complain based on commitment:
This is very easy. Always take the time to make the commitment explicit. What do you care about enough that you are taking the time to complain? Or if you are listening to or reading a complaint see if you can pull out the actual commitment involved. This is very important. The nature of things that we view as problems is that they are not self occurring, but are constructs. They are even the product of imperfect systems acting perfectly. The ability to recognize the nature of a commitment based complaint gives us a chance to reframe the understanding of the problem based on the commitment, rather than the fixed parameters of the complaint.

Reading posts on a forum such as this, it is not terribly difficult to identify which type of complaining is going on where.

Responding to complaints:

Recreational complaining:
go for it. Have fun! Don't expect any change.

Chronic complaints:
Don't respond. At all. The chronic complaint is like a tar baby. Any response or attempt to help, at the level of the complaint itself, is likely to stimulate further complaints and get you more and more entangled. This is what is meant by 'don't feed the trolls'.

Commitment based complaints:
Understand and restate the commitment. Consider a variety of strategies and possibilities for addressing the complaint, based on the commitment, rather than limited by the assumptions of the complaint.

I am hoping it is obvious why I posted this in General Discussion... Though I expect some complaints about it. :ugeek:
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Re: Complaining Guide

#3
Arjunlite wrote:This would've been valid in 2012 when the game was 1 year fresh.

Presently, we're 5 years in, asking for stuff of 2012 to get done in 2016.

I think, in general, we should cut the people complaining some slack.

I agree, while on the subject, one thing I will complain about, is this. I honestly feel like the game is catering the new players a little too much, I always wondered why it took OTM such a significant amount of time to roll out end game content, they have revamped maps, multiple occasions, lirs had already been redone, same for stonevale, etc. I get it, they want to attract new players, and keep them playing. But in doing so they take a much longer time making the end game content, the issue here is they know end game players will continue to play the game regardless of the time it takes them to release new content directed at the high level players. Meh, maybe I'm being selfish, and I really wouldn't mind the new gorgeous redesigns if there was more for us to do there, I only go solo kill flagren every once in awhile, maybe I should just make an alt lol.
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Re: Complaining Guide

#4
Arjunlite wrote:This would've been valid in 2012 when the game was 1 year fresh.

Presently, we're 5 years in, asking for stuff of 2012 to get done in 2016.

I think, in general, we should cut the people complaining some slack.

This isn't a post against complaining, far from it. I'm reposting this because I think it's worth having people read, so that they can examine their motivations and expectations when complaining. I think that pointing out the faults in the game is good, so that they can be fixed. If they aren't, then we just have to try harder. Think about how long we fought against variable spawn times, and now we have a reliably short spawn window on DL and EDL bosses. OTM didn't want to do it until enough people voiced their concerns.

If we want to bring about change, we all need to be committed to it. If we have a complaint, say it but also say what the solution should be. Try to stay positive, and mind our tone of voice when talking to OTM employees. I'm sure on many topics they are on our side, but it's an uphill battle. That doesn't mean stop fighting, that means we need to push harder. A "chronic complainer" won't do much to persuade OTM to action, but a "committed complainer" will.

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Re: Complaining Guide

#7
I think the success of thier business model depends on being the best freemium mobile mmorpg. Pets IMO went a bit too far they should have been cheaper. It's still the best freemium game IMO but if they go too far there are other games with better graphics, richer more detailed and larger worlds, better quest lines, better mounts and a far larger player base.

I'm a bit worried OTM will slide too far into p2p and make these other games better options.

I don't mind the catering, it's an influx of new casuals that pays a large share of OTM salaries and meager profits. Not just you whales.
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Re: Complaining Guide

#8
DarKnight wrote:
Arjunlite wrote:This would've been valid in 2012 when the game was 1 year fresh.

Presently, we're 5 years in, asking for stuff of 2012 to get done in 2016.

I think, in general, we should cut the people complaining some slack.

I agree, while on the subject, one thing I will complain about, is this. I honestly feel like the game is catering the new players a little too much, I always wondered why it took OTM such a significant amount of time to roll out end game content, they have revamped maps, multiple occasions, lirs had already been redone, same for stonevale, etc. I get it, they want to attract new players, and keep them playing. But in doing so they take a much longer time making the end game content, the issue here is they know end game players will continue to play the game regardless of the time it takes them to release new content directed at the high level players. Meh, maybe I'm being selfish, and I really wouldn't mind the new gorgeous redesigns if there was more for us to do there, I only go solo kill flagren every once in awhile, maybe I should just make an alt lol.


And it's about time! Remember when the tower expansion came that only was really for 170+ levelled people and lower levels got nothing? Everyone waited 1 or 2 years for this expansion and the only people that could enjoy it was high levels, atleast with all this new updated stuff all levels can enjoy it.

Also, I thought a recreational complaint would be complaining while ur high :lol:

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