Celtic Heroes

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Re: Letting weaker players win endgame bosses

#411
Guthix123 wrote:
Plus3 wrote:The problem is that level lock is often exploited. It encourages people to keep a low level, after all there are currently no raid bosses that drop useful gear over 180. "Honest" players who progress and try to get drops will have hardly any opportunity - the only way is to bank on people who level to 220 just cause or that want xdl when it doesn't offer the 66% more dps needed to outdo lvl200 people.

In short it encourages people to game the system and hasn't accomplished even half of what it was supposed to.


Ok, makes sense....however my main point still stands. Why would level 220s want to kill hrung? Or to phrase it better, why do level 220s feel that they deserve to get hrung instead of lower levels who arguably need the gear more (since they dont have full edl, and maybe not even full dl).

I would agree that staying at level 180 only to get endgame gear does make it a little unfair, however, just wait until gelebron comes out! Then they have 30 levels to go until they can even be useful at gelebron!


The issue with hrung is the poor amount of loot that drops. After 30 kills, we have 27 armor rings sitting in the bank and only 3 dmg rings have dropped and those are of the 60 dmg which is hardly better than some of the aggy we've gotten. We also have a ton of def+energy braces and only 4 dmg braces that have dropped. We have energy harvest skulls and sacrifice skulls and war cry helms. Only a very small amount of hrung drops are worth wanting and this is the same for the other end game bosses.

My druid is 207 and if I wasn't on lvling hiatus would be 220 and still want to kill hrung to get a healing reduced recast skull.

As far as why do lvl 220 want to keep killing hrung? It drops the best skulls and helms for casters and dmg braces and rings for melee classes...that is if they ever drop.

You seem to indicate a lower level needs the gear more. Hasn't the person that's spent more time in the game deserving of better gear? Isn't the person with the masters degree or PhD more deserving of a better position or promotion than the person with no degree or bachelor's degree?
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

Re: Letting weaker players win endgame bosses

#412
Zyz wrote:The issue with hrung is the poor amount of loot that drops. After 30 kills, we have 27 armor rings sitting in the bank and only 3 dmg rings have dropped and those are of the 60 dmg which is hardly better than some of the aggy we've gotten. We also have a ton of def+energy braces and only 4 dmg braces that have dropped. We have energy harvest skulls and sacrifice skulls and war cry helms. Only a very small amount of hrung drops are worth wanting and this is the same for the other end game bosses.

My druid is 207 and if I wasn't on lvling hiatus would be 220 and still want to kill hrung to get a healing reduced recast skull.

As far as why do lvl 220 want to keep killing hrung? It drops the best skulls and helms for casters and dmg braces and rings for melee classes...that is if they ever drop.

You seem to indicate a lower level needs the gear more. Hasn't the person that's spent more time in the game deserving of better gear? Isn't the person with the masters degree or PhD more deserving of a better position or promotion than the person with no degree or bachelor's degree?


You make several good points. And to make one thing clear, I was mostly talking about those clans that have been killing hrungnir and mordris pretty much immediately after spawn for the past year or so. If a clan has only killed hrung and/or mord a few times (like, under 50), than I would fit them more in the "smaller group" that (in my viewpoint) need the drops more.

As to why I think lower levels might need the gear more...I wasn't really trying to stress that, sure people under 200 or so will be working on getting full dl or just getting into edl gloves and boots, while people at 210-220 will find themselves able to get full edl. But that isn't too important. My main focus was that the hrungnir (and mordris) encounter(s) were designed for a specific level range (170-185 for hrung, 180-195 for mord), and so the people who complain about lower levels winning lock battles, really have nothing to complain about. It would be their fault for leveling too fast :? . (Not that there is absolutely anything wrong with fast leveling, its great if you have the time and money). Actually while I'm on the topic, let me just stress one important fact: higher level and spending more time on the game aren't always the same thing. Some people take their time, whereas others want to just speed level to endgame in a few months. As to people deserving gear, I leave that to individual clans, but my opinion is that just because someone is a higher level doesn't necessarily mean they deserve something more than someone who is a slightly lower level.
Eragon123 - lvl 220 ranger
Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
Sulis
Have questions about anything? PM me!
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Re: Letting weaker players win endgame bosses

#413
Guthix123 wrote:
Zyz wrote:The issue with hrung is the poor amount of loot that drops. After 30 kills, we have 27 armor rings sitting in the bank and only 3 dmg rings have dropped and those are of the 60 dmg which is hardly better than some of the aggy we've gotten. We also have a ton of def+energy braces and only 4 dmg braces that have dropped. We have energy harvest skulls and sacrifice skulls and war cry helms. Only a very small amount of hrung drops are worth wanting and this is the same for the other end game bosses.

My druid is 207 and if I wasn't on lvling hiatus would be 220 and still want to kill hrung to get a healing reduced recast skull.

As far as why do lvl 220 want to keep killing hrung? It drops the best skulls and helms for casters and dmg braces and rings for melee classes...that is if they ever drop.

You seem to indicate a lower level needs the gear more. Hasn't the person that's spent more time in the game deserving of better gear? Isn't the person with the masters degree or PhD more deserving of a better position or promotion than the person with no degree or bachelor's degree?


You make several good points. And to make one thing clear, I was mostly talking about those clans that have been killing hrungnir and mordris pretty much immediately after spawn for the past year or so. If a clan has only killed hrung and/or mord a few times (like, under 50), than I would fit them more in the "smaller group" that (in my viewpoint) need the drops more.

As to why I think lower levels might need the gear more...I wasn't really trying to stress that, sure people under 200 or so will be working on getting full dl or just getting into edl gloves and boots, while people at 210-220 will find themselves able to get full edl. But that isn't too important. My main focus was that the hrungnir (and mordris) encounter(s) were designed for a specific level range (170-185 for hrung, 180-195 for mord), and so the people who complain about lower levels winning lock battles, really have nothing to complain about. It would be their fault for leveling too fast :? . (Not that there is absolutely anything wrong with fast leveling, its great if you have the time and money). Actually while I'm on the topic, let me just stress one important fact: higher level and spending more time on the game aren't always the same thing. Some people take their time, whereas others want to just speed level to endgame in a few months. As to people deserving gear, I leave that to individual clans, but my opinion is that just because someone is a higher level doesn't necessarily mean they deserve something more than someone who is a slightly lower level.



You could also say you're not talking about the level, its the clan?
200 Allymia Rogue
Clan - Underground - Guardian Rank - Home of the noob, Paulweller

"If you aren't sinning; you aren't having fun." ;) ~ Priest

Re: Letting weaker players win endgame bosses

#414
Guthix123 wrote:
Zyz wrote:The issue with hrung is the poor amount of loot that drops. After 30 kills, we have 27 armor rings sitting in the bank and only 3 dmg rings have dropped and those are of the 60 dmg which is hardly better than some of the aggy we've gotten. We also have a ton of def+energy braces and only 4 dmg braces that have dropped. We have energy harvest skulls and sacrifice skulls and war cry helms. Only a very small amount of hrung drops are worth wanting and this is the same for the other end game bosses.

My druid is 207 and if I wasn't on lvling hiatus would be 220 and still want to kill hrung to get a healing reduced recast skull.

As far as why do lvl 220 want to keep killing hrung? It drops the best skulls and helms for casters and dmg braces and rings for melee classes...that is if they ever drop.

You seem to indicate a lower level needs the gear more. Hasn't the person that's spent more time in the game deserving of better gear? Isn't the person with the masters degree or PhD more deserving of a better position or promotion than the person with no degree or bachelor's degree?


You make several good points. And to make one thing clear, I was mostly talking about those clans that have been killing hrungnir and mordris pretty much immediately after spawn for the past year or so. If a clan has only killed hrung and/or mord a few times (like, under 50), than I would fit them more in the "smaller group" that (in my viewpoint) need the drops more.

As to why I think lower levels might need the gear more...I wasn't really trying to stress that, sure people under 200 or so will be working on getting full dl or just getting into edl gloves and boots, while people at 210-220 will find themselves able to get full edl. But that isn't too important. My main focus was that the hrungnir (and mordris) encounter(s) were designed for a specific level range (170-185 for hrung, 180-195 for mord), and so the people who complain about lower levels winning lock battles, really have nothing to complain about. It would be their fault for leveling too fast :? . (Not that there is absolutely anything wrong with fast leveling, its great if you have the time and money). Actually while I'm on the topic, let me just stress one important fact: higher level and spending more time on the game aren't always the same thing. Some people take their time, whereas others want to just speed level to endgame in a few months. As to people deserving gear, I leave that to individual clans, but my opinion is that just because someone is a higher level doesn't necessarily mean they deserve something more than someone who is a slightly lower level.

So a higher lvl doesnt deserve it more (agreed unless he worked for it), but by ur logic, a lower lvl does.
#NerfMages #AvoidBalance #WhyPlayARogue #MeatShieldOnly #HealingSlavesOnly

OP dps warrior on Belenus, hot af melee druid on Nuada. #Elementals #Apex

Re: Letting weaker players win endgame bosses

#415
Criminal wrote:So a higher lvl doesnt deserve it more (agreed unless he worked for it), but by ur logic, a lower lvl does.


Again, I want to stress that in my opinion its up to individual clans to decide who deserves items. I don't want to say that every high level deserves to get good gear before lower levels, because I know plenty of lower leveled people who are more active boss-wise than those 210+.

But my main point is that each boss encounter is designed for a specific level range (not that the drops necessarily are...just the fight itself). And because of that, all these 220s can't really complain when they lose the lock to a group who is at the level the encounter was designed for. Its what target lock was designed for...letting bosses go to the players in its level range (even though it may not seem fair to people).
Eragon123 - lvl 220 ranger
Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
Sulis
Have questions about anything? PM me!
Go Team #WorldSkillsUSA!
Rabid Glitter Squirrel Wrangler
Harbinger of cold hard logic and reason.

Check out the fan-made Celtic Heroes Database: celticheroesdb.com!

Re: Letting weaker players win endgame bosses

#416
^I didnt mean between ppl in clan, but in general that lvls 220 dont deserve hrung as much as 180's, even if they worked harder, played longer, put more effort and got themselves better gear within time, ofc it doesnt always mean lvl 220 = more hard work than lvl 180, but it usually is.
#NerfMages #AvoidBalance #WhyPlayARogue #MeatShieldOnly #HealingSlavesOnly

OP dps warrior on Belenus, hot af melee druid on Nuada. #Elementals #Apex

Re: Letting weaker players win endgame bosses

#417
Criminal wrote:^I didnt mean between ppl in clan, but in general that lvls 220 dont deserve hrung as much as 180's, even if they worked harder, played longer, put more effort and got themselves better gear within time, ofc it doesnt always mean lvl 220 = more hard work than lvl 180, but it usually is.


So basically people are stupid for leveling past 180-200 because you basically lose the ability to do 95% of what this game is about - bossing and getting geared.

People who ultra deck out maxed accounts, say some lvl200 for troll hrung and mord locks deserve it more than people who just wanted to have fun in the new area and try out some xdl.

Way to go target lock.
Member of Aeon - Taranis - 24 boxer
220+ toons
Ravenleaf druid - Silverstring ranger
Stormsong warrior - Nwerb Mage - Eventide Rogue

Toon histogram:
Level_____|200+|150-199|100-149|50-99|20-49|1-19|
# of toons|_5__|___16___|____3___|__11__|__21_|407|

Re: Letting weaker players win endgame bosses

#418
Well. Floor 6 (and I think Gelebron...) are coming out in the update that should be hitting the apple store any day now. So all you 220+ people can go work on downing him a few dozen times :) . See how his gear compares to hrung/mord, and from what I've heard, a lot of it is pretty sweet, especially since they actually *gasp* consulted with the player base (somewhat) way to go OTM!*

*Not 100% sure, seeing as I haven't been in the beta forums, but I hear rumors....
Eragon123 - lvl 220 ranger
Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
Sulis
Have questions about anything? PM me!
Go Team #WorldSkillsUSA!
Rabid Glitter Squirrel Wrangler
Harbinger of cold hard logic and reason.

Check out the fan-made Celtic Heroes Database: celticheroesdb.com!

Re: Letting weaker players win endgame bosses

#419
Guthix123 wrote:Well. Floor 6 (and I think Gelebron...) are coming out in the update that should be hitting the apple store any day now. So all you 220+ people can go work on downing him a few dozen times :) . See how his gear compares to hrung/mord, and from what I've heard, a lot of it is pretty sweet, especially since they actually *gasp* consulted with the player base (somewhat) way to go OTM!*

*Not 100% sure, seeing as I haven't been in the beta forums, but I hear rumors....


Ummm, don't believe, or spread rumors and you won't be disappointed
Belenus
GARAT level 198 Ice Mage
Started playing at the beginning of Sahmain 2012

The Mage's best weapon is a calculator!

Re: Letting weaker players win endgame bosses

#420
Let's look at gear bosses by level starting at aggy:
150 aggy
(A couple of intermediate weapon bosses)
185 hrungnir
190 mordis
190 necro
225? Gelebron

What's the problem here? 35 levels of nothing but edl quests. If you are 215, or 220, or let's say there is no sight of Gelebron in the near future, but you still need gear, guess who you will need to kill. Event bosses haven't dropped weapons in a good long time ( and who used reapers anyway). So end game bossing includes everybody from Snorri up.

If OTM did not intend this they should have inserted a raid boss at 210-215. As it is, everyone needs a more even playing field at this level.

One option as was stated is to drop to the 50% damage lock that was used early on, but only for Hrung and up. Another would be to use the existing lock system, but have a curve, so that the difference is less at end game than at the beging of the game. If a 220 tries to out lock a 35 on avatar of donn, the 220 would need to do 90% dmg for lock. But at mordis, a group of 190s would have a sleight advantage, just not as much of one over the 220 group. The advantage of a 180 group over a 220 group at Hrung would be more, but not as dramatic as it is now.

This second method gives a well organized, hard working, well geared group of 220s an even chance with a group of 180s that are equally prepared. It is not the slap in the face that the current system is to people that level. But it also does not keep new clans coming up through the ranks from having a chance to get geared.
Belenus
GARAT level 198 Ice Mage
Started playing at the beginning of Sahmain 2012

The Mage's best weapon is a calculator!

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