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Re: Constitution: Founders were religious or non-religious

#21
Some of these documents mention God, but none are about him. Just because he is mentioned doesn''t automatically quality the document as 'secular'. And for separation of church and state, yes John Quincy supported the other way round but the point is that Congress, who actually is the one that decides this, voted against him. There was no mistake. Also, I would like to see an answer to the point that the founders were Free Masons. This discussion is useless if the only person you directly answer is me. As for the preachers gathering men...that didn't win the revolution. Finally, I think you have it wrong. Why would historians try to alter history to negatively display Christianity? Why are quotes from a historian mostly wrong? What makes your "secular historians" right? Look up Thomas Aquines, the last time history was altered was the church incorporating philosophy into its beliefs, not historians altering the church out.
Gladier
Relentless

Re: Constitution: Founders were religious or non-religious

#22
First of all I am talking about mostly about the constitution so we are basically getting off-topic here. There was a servay that said that without them we might not of won.

I have not researched about the other document that much but I am sure if they were all basically christian principles and almost all the founders talked about how "God, with him, makes this country great" or around there. There were not freemasons? Where did you get that source? I said most secular historians do, not all. But they refuse to acsept it so they,"ignore the fact" about it and mostly say they were secular fore fathers.

This website have thousands of original documents recorded. http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBdefault.asp
Ashley A - Mabon - Novalis - 222 - Mage
Azona - Mabon - Novalis - 209 - Druid
0x15 - Mabon - Novalis - 216 - Rogue

Allymia - Epona - 220 - Rogue
Fire Mage - Epona - 220 - Mage

Aethinry Donn - Belenus - 221 - Warrior
Dakara - Belenus - 200 - Mage

Re: Constitution: Founders were religious or non-religious

#23
A. Let's see this survey.
B. Once again you say "the founders said that...". I can just state that they didn't. Back your statements up.
C. A decent amount were Free Masons. As requested http://bessel.org/foundmas.htm
D. I am talking about historians, not secular historians. The latter are a minority in comparison and can be biased because as devout Christians of course they wish to prove that the US is based on God.
E. Your website is written, edited, and run by members of a church. If that doesn't classify it as biased, nothing will. Also, a majority of references are obscure and not God centered. This is a much less biased source: http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm
Gladier
Relentless

Re: Constitution: Founders were religious or non-religious

#24
On your first link you sent me. You can easily see by looking at the percentage. Not that many were masons. The majority were Christians.


The web site has original documents as proof to show that they are correct. Christian or not it has the facts to support it. I have been a little lazy about typeing this out due to update.


The majority of them were Christians and that is all that matters. I lost the link to the servay due to computer data being too full and having to get it wiped.


Most of the people in office who are Christians are covered up and not really revealed as a public figure. There are a lot of them.

I think we all agreed that America was based off of wanting religious freedom. If I said all of the founders were Christians then I am sorry about that. But you do not look at the lesser majority and say,"It was not."

The senate and the rotunda have the 10 commandments all over the place one is on the floor of the senate and in the entrance there is Moses holding the ten commandments that is in Hebrew and many others which I can name where if you really want me to.


The Capital was used as a church two thousand people at most (4 churches were in there too)

There are two chapels in the capital. And they have a person who opens the meetings up in prayer.


Here are a few known people of many that were significantly proven to be a christian.

Thomas Jefferson went to church (Christian)
John Quincy Adams was a Christian and went to church
Denial Webster was a Christian
Lew Wallace-A tale of the Christ became a Christian
1. President Garfield and grant approved of the book
Back then sermons were preached all the time in the government buildings
Alexander Hamilton (most important signer of the constitution) wanted christen constitution society (Christian)
1. Support Christian religion
2. Support of the constitution


Some say that the capital and the senate do not have any religious artifacts in them but there is a ton! There are many statues all over the Capital (mostly the middle) of people holding, may I add, Bibles. In the Washington monument, if you walk up the stairs, it would have blocks and cap stones with bibles on them and bible references.


Let me do an example, if 200 people in total are complaining about a certain thing in the update and only 20 are for it do you pick the 180 or the 20? Same thing with the free masons. The most majority were Christians and many of the Presidents were also Christians. Mostly during the beginning because that is when it was very strong during that time.
Ashley A - Mabon - Novalis - 222 - Mage
Azona - Mabon - Novalis - 209 - Druid
0x15 - Mabon - Novalis - 216 - Rogue

Allymia - Epona - 220 - Rogue
Fire Mage - Epona - 220 - Mage

Aethinry Donn - Belenus - 221 - Warrior
Dakara - Belenus - 200 - Mage

Re: Constitution: Founders were religious or non-religious

#27
Many of them were deists and denied the existance of the holy trinity, Jesus Christ, the validation of the bible and even the church. Most were free masons and deists. It would do you well to get your information from a non Christian source as the christians have a looonnnnggggg history of making things up
pigman, with the fury of the pigs and the mind of a man
level 210+ rogue
Morrigan
Avalon
put your pants on, we're going out

Re: Constitution: Founders were religious or non-religious

#30
pigman wrote:Tell me how? They teach you Jesus was the whitest guy ever, but he came from the Middle East??? Makes sooooooooo much sense



Now you are just be retarded and and showing your real self. Being a loud mouth. You have officially have stopped trying to be on Admin's good side. I have never heard of that. You have to consider the origins of his parents. Besides we always consider both. We had to choose something.
Ashley A - Mabon - Novalis - 222 - Mage
Azona - Mabon - Novalis - 209 - Druid
0x15 - Mabon - Novalis - 216 - Rogue

Allymia - Epona - 220 - Rogue
Fire Mage - Epona - 220 - Mage

Aethinry Donn - Belenus - 221 - Warrior
Dakara - Belenus - 200 - Mage

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