Celtic Heroes

The Official Forum for Celtic Heroes, the 3D MMORPG for iOS and Android Devices

dissapearing discussions, and OTMS crackdown/stances.

#1
Ok. so im getting very concerned.
I'm seeing moderation of posts in ways that haven't been normal in the past.
discussions are being moved to restricted parts of the forums without any reason I can think of, and without any explanation.
That's concerning to me. I'm not used to such aggressive moderation, and it concerns me as to where this community is headed.

In the past two weeks, weve had significant blows to the community, with Flough being banned and leaving, which no matter your stance on what he did to get banned, was a SIGNIFICANT member of the community, who has made guides, helped with calculating many of the formulas that have helped people become better in-game. Not to mention creating a boss timer app that receives millions of views a month, and is used by every endgame clan that I know of. Anyways, her farewell post was moved around to try and hide, then completely removed from the forums. its getting annoying, as there are more and more dead links appearing on the forums due to this moderation. I logged onto the forums to read it, and bam. its gone, and from what was in the post when I skimmed it yesterday morning, there was nothing to warrant locking the post, much less removing it.

Ohh, and lets not forget celticheroes.net by Anexander, one of the useful community ran sites, is shutting down. thats another blow to our community.

Also, OTM, what gives about relocating posts to offtopic?

Regardless, I would like to hear others thoughts on the topic, and I would also like to know if their is a community forums or online discussion site where we can talk and discuss this great game without our topics discussions and posts being removed, hidden, modified, or relocated.
Cheers!
Hi. I'm Meno. Nice to meet you.

Re: dissapearing discussions, and OTMS crackdown/stances.

#2
You bring up a great point. Disappearing subject matter is disappointing. I'm guessing in Flough's case, it's because they probably have some litigation going on against Flough. Just my guess? Therefore , it would be detrimental to let any conversations go on about Flough. In fact, now that I've said "Flough" a bunch of times , I bet this discussion disappears too.
Wrantyx
Ranger
Clan: Concordiia , Donn Server

Re: dissapearing discussions, and OTMS crackdown/stances.

#3
wardukescott wrote:You bring up a great point. Disappearing subject matter is disappointing. I'm guessing in Flough's case, it's because they probably have some litigation going on against Flough. Just my guess? Therefore , it would be detrimental to let any conversations go on about Flough. In fact, now that I've said "Flough" a bunch of times , I bet this discussion disappears too.


I've already PM'd the OP but I figured I would address the topic.

Floughs farewell was removed due to a number of inflammatory posts from users. While this is a hub for discussion we do have a responsibility to ensure it is a welcoming hub that is correctly moderated.

On the topic of vanishing threads (the ones I have moved recently), I've made a topic discussing appeals / bans discussion on the forum:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=95213

While I appreciate players want to get their clanmates unbanned etc, the account owner will have to contact appeals to resolve their case.
If the account has been banned significant evidence has been found to warrant that ban, all bans are thoroughly investigated prior to doing so.
3rd party appeals will not be processed, we will only process appeals sent from the account owner.

TL:DR We handle Support / Appeals via official channels. We can only assist the account owner. Bans are only given if sufficient evidence is found. Threads that have been moved have typically been 3rd party appeals.
Muldar / OTM - Muldar
Ranger - 172 - Balor - Android

Community Manager at OTM

「ASA NISI MASA」

Re: dissapearing discussions, and OTMS crackdown/stances.

#4
Muldar wrote:
wardukescott wrote:You bring up a great point. Disappearing subject matter is disappointing. I'm guessing in Flough's case, it's because they probably have some litigation going on against Flough. Just my guess? Therefore , it would be detrimental to let any conversations go on about Flough. In fact, now that I've said "Flough" a bunch of times , I bet this discussion disappears too.


I've already PM'd the OP but I figured I would address the topic.

Floughs farewell was removed due to a number of inflammatory posts from users. While this is a hub for discussion we do have a responsibility to ensure it is a welcoming hub that is correctly moderated.

On the topic of vanishing threads (the ones I have moved recently), I've made a topic discussing appeals / bans discussion on the forum:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=95213

While I appreciate players want to get their clanmates unbanned etc, the account owner will have to contact appeals to resolve their case.
If the account has been banned significant evidence has been found to warrant that ban, all bans are thoroughly investigated prior to doing so.
3rd party appeals will not be processed, we will only process appeals sent from the account owner.

TL:DR We handle Support / Appeals via official channels. We can only assist the account owner. Bans are only given if sufficient evidence is found. Threads that have been moved have typically been 3rd party appeals.

Well muldar why do you think people report in the forums? It's most likely that appeals team doesn't give them an answer, they want attention and they wanna enjoy the game you all built just like everyone, they also wanna see people's opinions of how appeals works, they wanna know if anyone has the same issue, in the end they get their thread locked and they be told to message appeals... which takes forever or never answer them.
Forums will be welcoming if otm is doing their job very well, otherwise why would people complain? One can't complain if everything is fair and all smooth, I've reported many things via game, nothing was done about it, when I bring it up to forums it gets deleted, what am i supposed to do?
If one received a duplicated item, without knowing, they spend their money on it, innocents, they just get banned.. how is that even fair? Can't otm just remove the items of those who bought them mostly? I don't even do trades anymore, might still be a duplicated item going around and will get me banned... how am I supposed to play without trading and if I do there's a chance of me losing my account and everything.... if there are no issues people would be praising the game and giving new ideas to improve it, if they are always having it unfair OFCOURSE they have to complain! You don't spend your money and time and just get banned for buying an item, you treat people like they know it's duplicated and they insist on buying it, as if there's a sign saying "DUPLICATED HEROIC HEALTH REGENERATION ELIXIR"....... just..
Agent K - 224 Warrior Fingal
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Re: dissapearing discussions, and OTMS crackdown/stances.

#5
Unfortunately, that isn't always the case. Often times, people come to forums after appeals or support gave them an answer they didn't like. I don't mean a non-answer. I mean they told them they wouldn't be unbanned. Not everyone that claims innocence is and we aren't going to discuss with you the details and what they did to receive the ban. Why would we ban someone who has received a large number of items from a situation such as duping? Well, normally, it would only be temp. ban to remove the items from the server. Then, the account would be released. If we leave the account open, then the items can continue to move.

I understand that can be worrisome if you aren't used to having to follow the Terms of Service, but some of the rules that have been broken recently can't continue to happen. We have been trying to leave as many threads as possible, but some are moved after they've turned into a flame war, warned, then continued to flame.

Re: dissapearing discussions, and OTMS crackdown/stances.

#6
Agent K wrote:
Muldar wrote:
wardukescott wrote:You bring up a great point. Disappearing subject matter is disappointing. I'm guessing in Flough's case, it's because they probably have some litigation going on against Flough. Just my guess? Therefore , it would be detrimental to let any conversations go on about Flough. In fact, now that I've said "Flough" a bunch of times , I bet this discussion disappears too.


I've already PM'd the OP but I figured I would address the topic.

Floughs farewell was removed due to a number of inflammatory posts from users. While this is a hub for discussion we do have a responsibility to ensure it is a welcoming hub that is correctly moderated.

On the topic of vanishing threads (the ones I have moved recently), I've made a topic discussing appeals / bans discussion on the forum:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=95213

While I appreciate players want to get their clanmates unbanned etc, the account owner will have to contact appeals to resolve their case.
If the account has been banned significant evidence has been found to warrant that ban, all bans are thoroughly investigated prior to doing so.
3rd party appeals will not be processed, we will only process appeals sent from the account owner.

TL:DR We handle Support / Appeals via official channels. We can only assist the account owner. Bans are only given if sufficient evidence is found. Threads that have been moved have typically been 3rd party appeals.

Well muldar why do you think people report in the forums? It's most likely that appeals team doesn't give them an answer, they want attention and they wanna enjoy the game you all built just like everyone, they also wanna see people's opinions of how appeals works, they wanna know if anyone has the same issue, in the end they get their thread locked and they be told to message appeals... which takes forever or never answer them.
Forums will be welcoming if otm is doing their job very well, otherwise why would people complain? One can't complain if everything is fair and all smooth, I've reported many things via game, nothing was done about it, when I bring it up to forums it gets deleted, what am i supposed to do?
If one received a duplicated item, without knowing, they spend their money on it, innocents, they just get banned.. how is that even fair? Can't otm just remove the items of those who bought them mostly? I don't even do trades anymore, might still be a duplicated item going around and will get me banned... how am I supposed to play without trading and if I do there's a chance of me losing my account and everything.... if there are no issues people would be praising the game and giving new ideas to improve it, if they are always having it unfair OFCOURSE they have to complain! You don't spend your money and time and just get banned for buying an item, you treat people like they know it's duplicated and they insist on buying it, as if there's a sign saying "DUPLICATED HEROIC HEALTH REGENERATION ELIXIR"....... just..


People appeal on the forums because the team that handles appeals don't even read the content of emails. I literally received the same copy and paste message asking for character names, banked items, and BS which I already had sent to them earlier when they asked the first time. Plus, you only receive one reply every week making appeals go on for MONTHS. I posted on Ask for Help section and they completely ignored their mistake.

Re: dissapearing discussions, and OTMS crackdown/stances.

#7
Have to agree with the players here, for years now it has been said that there is a large perspective difference between the players and OTM, and this is by another symptom of it.
Players use the forums as a way to pull attention to an issue when support won’t respond to their emails. Typically and almost always the player goes to the forum only after using the “proper channels.”
Personally, I think going to the forums is a good idea, the appeal process should be done in a way to shape the game to make it as enjoyable as possible, so everyone can play the game and enjoy it, and along that theme the forums is a perfect place to discuss and critique actions that have been taken. If the entire forums agrees (which almost never happens about anything) that a ban is not justified, then maybe you all at your office can take that as a hint that a procedure of your appeal process may need some editing.
Allow people to post their appeals on the forums, no one says you have to respond to it, but let the players discuss bans and whether or not the community thinks an action is bannable. If the thread gets out of hand you can always lock it, but the same risk of drama goes for any thread on the forums.
I think OTM needs to stop manhandling the players and start taking the feedback more seriously. If you all won’t play the game, then the only way to know what is working in the game atmosphere is through the players. This encompasses everything from lvl lock to boss drops to pvp to appeals processes. The game has died a bit recently (I mean look at how Avalon quit, they have been around since almost day 1), and I don’t believe you all need a rocket scientist to tell you that this is because of negligent updates and procedures contrary to player wants.
This is my 2 cents on this issue, but I’m sick of seeing this manhandling of the community and player base.

Btw this isn’t directed at you Muldar, your one of the few OTM employees whose pretty transparent and open to hearing what the players have to say, even if it’s ridiculous you still give them your ear. Thank you for that :)
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Re: dissapearing discussions, and OTMS crackdown/stances.

#8
The banning process along with the appeals are undergoing a large amount of editing right now. It does need to become more uniform and not all offenses are created equal. Someone going off one time in chat after playing six years doesn't warrant the same punishment as someone using a cheat, loophole, exploit for gains. It's not that we're not open to discussion on some of the topics, but we aren't going to discuss details of certain types of bans. Many of which (since I've been here anyway) posted to the forums are not the reason why they were banned or it's been twisted. We try to do what is right for both the community and the company. There are some debates that can't be had on the forums. There are others, while I know I'd love to discuss with you, we aren't at liberty to whether that be legality or partners or a number of other reasons. I don't think it's hard to read between the lines with some of the pinned posts that have been going up what some folks offense is. There are definitely some situations that we can't discuss here and the ramifications of what these players are doing are long reaching in and out of the game.

Additionally, I'm all for transparency. Yes, our team is small. Currently, for CM/CS, there are three of us (Muldar, Morgana, and myself). The three of us you see here on the forums on a regular basis. On a regular basis, I, personally, only handle one very specific ban and appeal. I can't really discuss the details of this and I apologize. I can tell you the one type of ban and appeal I handle is extremely serious in nature it is not done without a ton of investigation. It's a laborious process and has taken quite a lot of resources to get ahead of.

Recently, I was asked to shift my focus from being in the forums and online as much to reworking a lot of internal policies and procedures. This was a decision made based on the feedback we receive via email, reviews, forums, etc. as well as the long wait times. This is still in the process of being worked on and nothing has been set in stone yet; not all of it will make it into the new policies for this game. We don't think it would be beneficial to come in with an abundant amount of changes as this community is very mature. But as it is currently written in the discipline procedure on the website, it implies that someone calling you an ******* is on the same warning system as someone scamming a player out of valuable items. I hope we can agree that those aren't the same severity and should be handled differently for a first offense. That is something I wouldn't be opposed to starting a new thread and discussing: areas in which you think need a crackdown. There will be some zero tolerance items like hate speech and rape speech; those are never okay.

Even without these being finalized (remember I told you we spent the first couple of week of the new year working in the tool), the oldest ticket (spare a few rare one-offs) is from Feb. 14, 2018. The emails (support and appeals) are still a bit behind, but progress has been made. Once the new policies and procedures are finalized, I'll go back to starting look at programs or other long-term changes that can be made to help improve quality of life for the community or make our processes more efficient.

Re: dissapearing discussions, and OTMS crackdown/stances.

#9
I came to the forums because someone who got banned was chieftan of our clan. All i wanted is a yes or no, if they will ever unban him. Or if they will transfer the title to a player that hasnt commited any offenses. Its hard to keep a clan functioning without that chieftan slot. But i dont want to send a support messge since its not my toon banned, i also dont want to plead for them to unban him. Im just trying to keep my clan going. But my PM has still been unanswered, and i dont know if there is another place to take my issue.

Re: dissapearing discussions, and OTMS crackdown/stances.

#10
I say it's ******* on the whole evidence thing before ban. I know someone reported one player for account sharing and literally gave otm their last 10 passwords and user and yet nothing. :ugeek: But they're real quick in banning someone that jokingly said, 'sell account 1000m'. As if anyone is serious about that. Or another who said, 'I'll sell my account if we lose this boss'. Few days later banned over a joke. Lol ok.

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