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Re: New mage

#21
Ok, so I've been leveling up in stonevale, which is pretty annoying since all the imps have like double or triple the regular fire resistance, and I'm wondering if I should upgrade my bandage wounds. It seems that the standard for mages is to use e-shield but I've been comparing it to bandage wounds and it actually seems worse.

If you compare the amount of hp both give you for the same amount of energy, bandage wounds is way ahead from starting from level 1 all the way to 20, being five times more efficient. The only thing e-shield has going for it in my eyes is that it gives you the hp straight up, were as you have to cast bw multiple times in a fight (around 4 times total for you to recover the same hp as e-shield gives). So it is technically impossible to be interrupted if you do eshld before a fight and which you might be with BW, but I personally have never had a problem being interrupted. Both have around, if not the same cast time and I have no problem fitting them between firebolts and on average I am interrupted less than half the time. My ice magic is a little higher than my first aid, but I doubt that makes a difference, I'm thinking that e shield might scale better being off focus vs vit, but five to one is a big difference to gap.

So if anyone could answer why e-shield is better for mages I would greatly appreciate it. Screen shots would be nice if anyone just has straight up better stats for e-shield than BW.

Re: New mage

#22
SamySamSamBoss2000 wrote:Ok, so I've been leveling up in stonevale, which is pretty annoying since all the imps have like double or triple the regular fire resistance, and I'm wondering if I should upgrade my bandage wounds. It seems that the standard for mages is to use e-shield but I've been comparing it to bandage wounds and it actually seems worse.

If you compare the amount of hp both give you for the same amount of energy, bandage wounds is way ahead from starting from level 1 all the way to 20, being five times more efficient. The only thing e-shield has going for it in my eyes is that it gives you the hp straight up, were as you have to cast bw multiple times in a fight (around 4 times total for you to recover the same hp as e-shield gives). So it is technically impossible to be interrupted if you do eshld before a fight and which you might be with BW, but I personally have never had a problem being interrupted. Both have around, if not the same cast time and I have no problem fitting them between firebolts and on average I am interrupted less than half the time. My ice magic is a little higher than my first aid, but I doubt that makes a difference, I'm thinking that e shield might scale better being off focus vs vit, but five to one is a big difference to gap.

So if anyone could answer why e-shield is better for mages I would greatly appreciate it. Screen shots would be nice if anyone just has straight up better stats for e-shield than BW.

At lower levels (100-) I can agree that e shield is a energy draining skill compared to others like BW. The reason a lot of mages use it is that at higher levels bandage wounds just isn’t able to heal enough in a single cast to do any real healing, players actually will take more damage in the time it takes to cast than it will heal. As such, the higher front protection of e shield outweighs for most, even though the energy per health ratio favors BW, it just isn’t practical for combat use.
Gwydion - Guardian of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 224 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

CD Swapping since 2016

Re: New mage

#23
Ok, so I just got Ice blast (for 15k on epona, hopefully it was a good deal) and as I probably won't be getting firestorm soon I'm wondering if I should alt and go ice for a while. Probably until I get storm. I'm running max bolt, fire lure and attune at half, and shards at level one. I also have cloak of fire at level 7 and it's pretty good at finishing off enemies so I use one less bolt but I've stopped putting points in it.

So do you experienced mages think it would be an overall damage boost to go ice or should I just stick with my bolt spam? I'm around lvl 70 these days.

Re: New mage

#24
SamySamSamBoss2000 wrote:Ok, so I just got Ice blast (for 15k on epona, hopefully it was a good deal) and as I probably won't be getting firestorm soon I'm wondering if I should alt and go ice for a while. Probably until I get storm. I'm running max bolt, fire lure and attune at half, and shards at level one. I also have cloak of fire at level 7 and it's pretty good at finishing off enemies so I use one less bolt but I've stopped putting points in it.

So do you experienced mages think it would be an overall damage boost to go ice or should I just stick with my bolt spam? I'm around lvl 70 these days.


It would be an immediate damage boost, and you'd be able to do more damage right at the start of the fight....However, the problem is that once you cast your ice skills, if you don't instantly kill the mob, you kinda just have to sit there and take damage until the cooldowns are complete...whereas with fire, you could keep dealing damage because the cooldowns are faster.

I suppose you could also try moving points from fire attune and/or cloak of fire to ice shards, to get some extra cast damage. You'd be losing out on the extra damage to fire bolt and the nice cloak effect, but the extra punch from a higher level ice shards will likely be worth it, even if you only use it once per fight.
Eragon123 - lvl 220 ranger
Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
Sulis
Have questions about anything? PM me!

Harbinger of cold hard logic and reason.
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Re: New mage

#25
SamySamSamBoss2000 wrote:Ok, so I just got Ice blast (for 15k on epona, hopefully it was a good deal) and as I probably won't be getting firestorm soon I'm wondering if I should alt and go ice for a while. Probably until I get storm. I'm running max bolt, fire lure and attune at half, and shards at level one. I also have cloak of fire at level 7 and it's pretty good at finishing off enemies so I use one less bolt but I've stopped putting points in it.

So do you experienced mages think it would be an overall damage boost to go ice or should I just stick with my bolt spam? I'm around lvl 70 these days.

I personally always prefer fire build, but this is my personal preference. In terms of math and more concrete information however, fire is the easier of the two builds for leveling and for an equal geared mage, fire wins until EG where the two builds are more or less equal.
Fire storm is not the cheapest tome however, with the price ranging anywhere from 30k to 250k depending seller. (from what I've seen this range is consistent across servers). If you don't think you want to invest this much in one skill, it would be better to go ice. If you go ice though, make sure you also get ice attune and ice lure!

Regardless of which element you choose, a few changes I would recommend to your build, if I may ;)
-) Max attune. At early levels a maxed attune can double or more than double your bolt and storm. If you are only using bolt as it seems then I would definitely recommend maxing so you can get the most out of each cast.
-) don't max lure - lure doesn't need to be maxed until you start bossing, keeping it at half max works as well as if it were maxed. This is the case as a mob cannot go below 0 resist, and a half maxed lure does the trick in accomplishing this.
-) drop cloak points and level shards - shards is a good skill and until you get storm it does the trick nicely in giving you an extra skill to use. without the attune and lure buff in helping out its damage it will be weaker than storm would be, but it is a workable substitute.


as to the 15k for ice blast, it isn't a steal nor is it a rip off, I don't play Epona but from my experience on other worlds 10-20k seems to be the average range for skills of the same rarity as ice blast.


I hope this helps :)
-- Bob
Gwydion - Guardian of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 224 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

CD Swapping since 2016

Re: New mage

#26
Ok, I'll put it this way. What build would you guys suggest (essentially for solo leveling) around lvl 70. I don't have Freeze (yet), incinerate, any lures other than ice/fire, sacrifice, and firestorm. I probably won't get firestorm for a while as its rarer and I can't even afford anything over 50k so.

I will also, likely be heading to OW to kill eyes. So, if you guys have any builds to suggest using the classic skills (other than storm) I would love to hear them. I also have around 25 unspent skill points at the moment, so if you guys think of something that only requires a few tweaks from my current setup that's great. I really just would like to kill stuff to get the most xp the quickest (and running out of energy does significantly decrease my effectiveness right now).

Thanks guys

Re: New mage

#27
SamySamSamBoss2000 wrote:Ok, I'll put it this way. What build would you guys suggest (essentially for solo leveling) around lvl 70. I don't have Freeze (yet), incinerate, any lures other than ice/fire, sacrifice, and firestorm. I probably won't get firestorm for a while as its rarer and I can't even afford anything over 50k so.

I will also, likely be heading to OW to kill eyes. So, if you guys have any builds to suggest using the classic skills (other than storm) I would love to hear them. I also have around 25 unspent skill points at the moment, so if you guys think of something that only requires a few tweaks from my current setup that's great. I really just would like to kill stuff to get the most xp the quickest (and running out of energy does significantly decrease my effectiveness right now).

Thanks guys

The standard build I usually suggest for your level range would be as follows:
3 focus per 2 vit, so for 70 that would be 150 vitality and 230 focus before any gear add ons. This equates to roughly 900 health and 1380 energy before any add ons.
For skills I would then max the following, assuming a total of 69 skill points (lvl 70).
Ice attune - 20/20
Ice shard - 15/20
Ice blast - 15/20
Ice lure - 10/20
Energy boost - 9/20
Energy shield - 6/20
Firebolt - 1/20

Honestly this is what I always consider to be the toughest part of the game if you don’t have lux or advanced gear as you have the lowest skill points to how many you really need to do well ratio.
Once you get above 90 it gets easier, but until then it’s difficult.
What I would suggest is work towards the following, prioritizing points in skills closer to the top of this list:
1) ice attune
2) ice shard
3) ice blast
4) ice lure
4) energy shield
4) energy boost
7) fire bolt

While this is not a “top DPS” build, I have used builds similar/identical to this when I have started on worlds with no lux etc and I have found them to work fairly well.

Another thing that can help is if you do the OW questline and other lower level quest lines, this way you spend most of your time traveling/completing objectives and your energy/health regen won’t be as much of a factor.
These questlines are a great alternative to lixing and are reasonably fast pace with regards to xp gain.


2 other notes of suggestions/comments:
1) I would usually suggest the pirates in fingals cave instead of eyes. They do more damage but die a lot quicker and don’t require as much walking to get from one to the next. But I have also swapped over to eyes on toons where I start to die easier.

2) I would recommend trying to join a mid tier clan that can help you acquire warden and meteoric armor and may even have some nubby mage gear that you can use to get some more skill points and stat points to make your life easier.
Unfortunately I don’t know anything about epona clans with regards to specific clan names etc... but thankfully the forums is full of awesome people from each world who can help fill in that info. I’d recommend going to the sub-forum for your server and see about finding a clan. While going alone can be peaceful somewhat, the game is a lot easier, especially early on, with a clan by your side :)


As always, if you have any other questions don’t hesitate to ask!
I hope this helps!!!
— Bob
Gwydion - Guardian of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 224 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

CD Swapping since 2016

Re: New mage

#28
Thanks Bob for the detailed response.

So personally, would you say that shards and blast is more viable then some hybrid fire build with shards at this point, since I don't have firestorm? Also does anyone know if a quiver gives a damage boost to your wand attacks? I feel like all off hands do, but I have this idea that quivers can only be used with bows. I suppose it would also be good if I managed to get my hands (or fingers) on an ice attunement ring (+5 royal).

I've actually been looking at a golden quiver of ice and royal ice attunement ring in the auction and if can only get one, which would you guys suggest. The reason I'm even thinking about the quiver is because it's very cheap right now, and it does have 15hp and energy regen which would be pretty use full for me at the stage. The +75 to dex isn't useless and 150hp and energy is always useful. Then if the 100 cold dmg does stack with my wand (or my fists) then my auto attacks will be doing around as much as my lvl 1 shards right now which come in very handy. So overall it's pretty useful and I could use it for an alt at some point, or resell, perhaps for more, as it's really cheap at the moment.

Re: New mage

#29
SamySamSamBoss2000 wrote:Thanks Bob for the detailed response.

So personally, would you say that shards and blast is more viable then some hybrid fire build with shards at this point, since I don't have firestorm? Also does anyone know if a quiver gives a damage boost to your wand attacks? I feel like all off hands do, but I have this idea that quivers can only be used with bows. I suppose it would also be good if I managed to get my hands (or fingers) on an ice attunement ring (+5 royal).

I've actually been looking at a golden quiver of ice and royal ice attunement ring in the auction and if can only get one, which would you guys suggest. The reason I'm even thinking about the quiver is because it's very cheap right now, and it does have 15hp and energy regen which would be pretty use full for me at the stage. The +75 to dex isn't useless and 150hp and energy is always useful. Then if the 100 cold dmg does stack with my wand (or my fists) then my auto attacks will be doing around as much as my lvl 1 shards right now which come in very handy. So overall it's pretty useful and I could use it for an alt at some point, or resell, perhaps for more, as it's really cheap at the moment.


The ice attune ring will be really helpful if you change your build to what Bob suggested, that way you could boost ice attune to 25 instead of just 20.

Quivers can only be used with bows. While you could theoretically find a non ranger specific bow and use that with the quiver....I wouldn’t recommend it. The best mage offhands boost focus, give pure energy regen, and don’t give any straight auto attack damage. At your level, probably the best option in the Scavenger lux shop would be the Master’s Grimoire, because it gives 100 focus (directly increasing your skill damage and boosts) as well as some energy regen and health. That being said, it may be hard to find someone selling it secondhand....the majority of players usually don’t buy lux until lvl 100, when the next tier of lux items is unlocked in Carrowmore Tunnels.
Eragon123 - lvl 220 ranger
Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
Sulis
Have questions about anything? PM me!

Harbinger of cold hard logic and reason.
Go Team #WorldSkillsUSA!
Latest Celtic Heroes Database Update: Character Creator!

Re: New mage

#30
SamySamSamBoss2000 wrote:Thanks Bob for the detailed response.

So personally, would you say that shards and blast is more viable then some hybrid fire build with shards at this point, since I don't have firestorm? Also does anyone know if a quiver gives a damage boost to your wand attacks? I feel like all off hands do, but I have this idea that quivers can only be used with bows. I suppose it would also be good if I managed to get my hands (or fingers) on an ice attunement ring (+5 royal).

I've actually been looking at a golden quiver of ice and royal ice attunement ring in the auction and if can only get one, which would you guys suggest. The reason I'm even thinking about the quiver is because it's very cheap right now, and it does have 15hp and energy regen which would be pretty use full for me at the stage. The +75 to dex isn't useless and 150hp and energy is always useful. Then if the 100 cold dmg does stack with my wand (or my fists) then my auto attacks will be doing around as much as my lvl 1 shards right now which come in very handy. So overall it's pretty useful and I could use it for an alt at some point, or resell, perhaps for more, as it's really cheap at the moment.

On top of what eragon wrote, the reason mages don’t use autos is that auto attacks rely on the “attack” stat in order to land and hit the mob you are attacking. A player can increase their attack stat in 3 ways: 1) attack itself (attack as a stat is on some gear), 2) dexterity, and 3) melee ability points for the weapon you are using.
For mages, the amount of points and gear that would be needed to get enough attack draws away from our skills by a lot, and the small auto damage just isn’t worth it. For rangers, rogues, warriors, and even totem build druids it can work, but mages are a special case known as casters where the wand is just for show and really for the stat boosts to our skills. In all reality VR could remove the magic damage from the wands and nothing would change really.
Furthermore, with the bow, you wouldn’t have access to the “bow ability” and thus you wouldn’t be able to increase your attack to a reasonable level to where the hits actually land on mobs.
As eragon pointed out the quiver only works with a bow, so I wouldn’t go for it. The regen may seem useful now, but 1) the 15 health regen and e regen really won’t make a difference after around level 100 making it a short term investment and 2) golden quivers aren’t cheap; and for that price I would recommend saving your gold for a level 100 focus of the seer or a level 50 masters grimoire.
Or even more so than this, sigils. While lux can beef your skills a bit, the regen from sigils is probably the most helpful investment I have ever made for a toon, whether low level or End Game.
Sigils typically run 1-2k per for a total of 5-10k per crate of 5. While they don’t work in combat, if you are able to survive 2 mobs with your energy and health, then if you have enough sigils you can quickly regen and get right back into the action!

And ya, at level 70 I would recommend picking a type, either fire or ice. Hybrid technically works until 100, but after level 50 it noticeably works less and less and it can become quite burdensome for leveling and gameplay.
Gwydion - Guardian of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 224 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

CD Swapping since 2016

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