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Re: Mage Balance Changes

#31
I have to say I think adding the % to all damage works best. All of our damage comes from skills. I am an ice mage, but I have fire ability maxed as well. I run shards and blast with direct damage gear and cool down reduction like most endgame mages. However we have several mages that run full lure and freeze builds, so instead of carrying a wasted lure. I carry maxed firebolt, maxed frostbite, and maxed incrnerate. So that’s 5 dps skills with two being dot. Even if all of those skills were doing 8-10% of thier total damage converted to divine damage, I still wouldn’t do as much as a ranger or rogue. I would be much closer yes, but scroll back in this chat and look at the amount of divine damage output rangers and rogues can do with a single heroic haste. Then look at the time spent between skill casting for mages. Even with a total damage % conversion we will struggle to keep up, but hopefully when combined with our elemental damage it will be enough to make us relevant again as a dps class.
GRIMM☠️
Grimeo - 224 Mage
Grimm Hunter - 190 Ranger
Grimm Samedi - 200 Druid
Grimm Reaper - 108 Rogue
Grimm Blade - 97 Warrior
World - Taranis
RED RIGHT HAND

Re: Mage Balance Changes

#32
Disclaimer, I haven't read anything posted on this thread yet :P But krummy gave me an audio run down so, I have that...

Any change with regards to giving mages divine damage won't fix the problem. Either it overbalances mages to the point where the whole game is broken, it produces inner-class problems between fire and ice, or it defaults mages to as krummy calls it, a one skill class. Divine damage on mages would be cool, but it just doesn't fit with how the class functions, and thats fine, there are other nondivine damage avenues that can be explored.

My opinion on this matter is instead to just reduce boss elemental resists slightly and to nerf future elemental damage additions onto other classes gear. Bloodthorn and proteus are decent examples. I say decent because prot has a bit too much elemental resist so rangers and rogues still dominate the boss, but they are better than gele mordy and necro to the point where a godly mage can outdps decent rangers. Bloodthorn has decent resists and has some auto traps that limit auto damage, and as a result we have seen mages, rogues, and rangers (sorry DPS wars, ik you are people to, but, ya soz :lol:) all get legitimate kills. With the buffs coming to DPS wars maybe even they can go for kills... This was amazing progress in class balance and I would like to see more of this going forward.

However, mages need some divine work overhaul, and I think an extra 2k divine damage from the oh skill would provide that needed small bump. Its a decent skill for helping with adds and such but on bosses its pretty much worthless rn, and a small 2k damage boost could really help with that.


Other than that I really can't think of anything. Krummy and I have been going over pretty much any idea from divine attune to a proc chance for a pure divine skill hit and everything we have come up with or gone over would only result in a large potential for over balance (a potential that people like us would find and exploit the hell out of :lol: #ChMathNerds


EDIT: I'm not necessarily calling for old bosses to be redone, some make sense to favor certain classes, but i would like to see a discussion on it and some changes made, not the same to all, but having those bosses set up as antimage zones is probably not the right way to go.
Gwydion - Relentless
BobsYourUncle 162+ Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior

Retired Servers: Arawn, Herne, Danu, Crom

Read my Fire Mage Guide :D

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Re: Mage Balance Changes

#33
bob the mage wrote:Disclaimer, I haven't read anything posted on this thread yet :P But krummy gave me an audio run down so, I have that...

Any change with regards to giving mages divine damage won't fix the problem. Either it overbalances mages to the point where the whole game is broken, it produces inner-class problems between fire and ice, or it defaults mages to as krummy calls it, a one skill class. Divine damage on mages would be cool, but it just doesn't fit with how the class functions, and thats fine, there are other nondivine damage avenues that can be explored.

My opinion on this matter is instead to just reduce boss elemental resists slightly and to nerf future elemental damage additions onto other classes gear. Bloodthorn and proteus are decent examples. I say decent because prot has a bit too much elemental resist so rangers and rogues still dominate the boss, but they are better than gele mordy and necro to the point where a godly mage can outdps decent rangers. Bloodthorn has decent resists and has some auto traps that limit auto damage, and as a result we have seen mages, rogues, and rangers (sorry DPS wars, ik you are people to, but, ya soz :lol:) all get legitimate kills. With the buffs coming to DPS wars maybe even they can go for kills... This was amazing progress in class balance and I would like to see more of this going forward.

However, mages need some divine work overhaul, and I think an extra 2k divine damage from the oh skill would provide that needed small bump. Its a decent skill for helping with adds and such but on bosses its pretty much worthless rn, and a small 2k damage boost could really help with that.


Other than that I really can't think of anything. Krummy and I have been going over pretty much any idea from divine attune to a proc chance for a pure divine skill hit and everything we have come up with or gone over would only result in a large potential for over balance (a potential that people like us would find and exploit the hell out of :lol: #ChMathNerds


EDIT: I'm not necessarily calling for old bosses to be redone, some make sense to favor certain classes, but i would like to see a discussion on it and some changes made, not the same to all, but having those bosses set up as antimage zones is probably not the right way to go.


I agree with this for the most part however giving us one boss that is balanced dosent make up 6 years worth of neglect for the class on raids. As said on the most balanced raid (prot) it takes a god level mage just to compete with a decent ranger....that is the most balanced boss

With base damage being converted each skill can be individually balanced by simply changing a decimal point in the formula and it will in no way effect current class dynamics. It is not adding or removing damage at all, simply converting a small portion.

If otm is able to push content on a regular basis I will be all for working on future balances and ignoring current raid bosses, however waiting years for a single boss is too long (most players won’t even be around that long). This has been a problem for years and I personally think now is the time to change that.
World: Gwydion Clan: Relentless

Krumz~220+ Mage
Krums~in progress Druid


Retirement dident work out for me .-.

Re: Mage Balance Changes

#34
Personally I'd like to see all resistances removed and all classes if equally geared to do nearly the same amount of dmg over the course of the boss kill. So everyone just plays their favorite class without worrying which class gets kill or outdpses another class.
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

Re: Mage Balance Changes

#35
Zyz wrote:Personally I'd like to see all resistances removed and all classes if equally geared to do nearly the same amount of dmg over the course of the boss kill. So everyone just plays their favorite class without worrying which class gets kill or outdpses another class.

As much as I do see the appeal to such an idea, -1. Resists make for challenges and strategy in killing bosses, and more than that, they help with the scaling of difficulties.
I think OTM got carried away starting with carrow in adding insanely high resists. OW was nice, aggy was well done. Even Hrung was okay in terms of overall balance. But Mordy onwards it seems OTM just loves to dump resists on a boss and call it done, which removes class balancing as divine damage, something mages have virtually no access to, becomes the only real constant DPS on the bosses.


krummy9552 wrote:
bob the mage wrote:Disclaimer, I haven't read anything posted on this thread yet :P But krummy gave me an audio run down so, I have that...

Any change with regards to giving mages divine damage won't fix the problem. Either it overbalances mages to the point where the whole game is broken, it produces inner-class problems between fire and ice, or it defaults mages to as krummy calls it, a one skill class. Divine damage on mages would be cool, but it just doesn't fit with how the class functions, and thats fine, there are other nondivine damage avenues that can be explored.

My opinion on this matter is instead to just reduce boss elemental resists slightly and to nerf future elemental damage additions onto other classes gear. Bloodthorn and proteus are decent examples. I say decent because prot has a bit too much elemental resist so rangers and rogues still dominate the boss, but they are better than gele mordy and necro to the point where a godly mage can outdps decent rangers. Bloodthorn has decent resists and has some auto traps that limit auto damage, and as a result we have seen mages, rogues, and rangers (sorry DPS wars, ik you are people to, but, ya soz :lol:) all get legitimate kills. With the buffs coming to DPS wars maybe even they can go for kills... This was amazing progress in class balance and I would like to see more of this going forward.

However, mages need some divine work overhaul, and I think an extra 2k divine damage from the oh skill would provide that needed small bump. Its a decent skill for helping with adds and such but on bosses its pretty much worthless rn, and a small 2k damage boost could really help with that.


Other than that I really can't think of anything. Krummy and I have been going over pretty much any idea from divine attune to a proc chance for a pure divine skill hit and everything we have come up with or gone over would only result in a large potential for over balance (a potential that people like us would find and exploit the hell out of :lol: #ChMathNerds


EDIT: I'm not necessarily calling for old bosses to be redone, some make sense to favor certain classes, but i would like to see a discussion on it and some changes made, not the same to all, but having those bosses set up as antimage zones is probably not the right way to go.


I agree with this for the most part however giving us one boss that is balanced dosent make up 6 years worth of neglect for the class on raids. As said on the most balanced raid (prot) it takes a god level mage just to compete with a decent ranger....that is the most balanced boss

With base damage being converted each skill can be individually balanced by simply changing a decimal point in the formula and it will in no way effect current class dynamics. It is not adding or removing damage at all, simply converting a small portion.

If otm is able to push content on a regular basis I will be all for working on future balances and ignoring current raid bosses, however waiting years for a single boss is too long (most players won’t even be around that long). This has been a problem for years and I personally think now is the time to change that.

Ya I agree with this.
Gwydion - Relentless
BobsYourUncle 162+ Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior

Retired Servers: Arawn, Herne, Danu, Crom

Read my Fire Mage Guide :D

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Re: Mage Balance Changes

#36
bob the mage wrote:Disclaimer, I haven't read anything posted on this thread yet :P But krummy gave me an audio run down so, I have that...

Any change with regards to giving mages divine damage won't fix the problem. Either it overbalances mages to the point where the whole game is broken, it produces inner-class problems between fire and ice, or it defaults mages to as krummy calls it, a one skill class. Divine damage on mages would be cool, but it just doesn't fit with how the class functions, and thats fine, there are other nondivine damage avenues that can be explored.

My opinion on this matter is instead to just reduce boss elemental resists slightly and to nerf future elemental damage additions onto other classes gear. Bloodthorn and proteus are decent examples. I say decent because prot has a bit too much elemental resist so rangers and rogues still dominate the boss, but they are better than gele mordy and necro to the point where a godly mage can outdps decent rangers. Bloodthorn has decent resists and has some auto traps that limit auto damage, and as a result we have seen mages, rogues, and rangers (sorry DPS wars, ik you are people to, but, ya soz :lol:) all get legitimate kills. With the buffs coming to DPS wars maybe even they can go for kills... This was amazing progress in class balance and I would like to see more of this going forward.

However, mages need some divine work overhaul, and I think an extra 2k divine damage from the oh skill would provide that needed small bump. Its a decent skill for helping with adds and such but on bosses its pretty much worthless rn, and a small 2k damage boost could really help with that.


Other than that I really can't think of anything. Krummy and I have been going over pretty much any idea from divine attune to a proc chance for a pure divine skill hit and everything we have come up with or gone over would only result in a large potential for over balance (a potential that people like us would find and exploit the hell out of :lol: #ChMathNerds


EDIT: I'm not necessarily calling for old bosses to be redone, some make sense to favor certain classes, but i would like to see a discussion on it and some changes made, not the same to all, but having those bosses set up as antimage zones is probably not the right way to go.

Um Ugnar in the beta got lots of kills as a DPS warrior including Mordris vs poison set rogues with dg pieces and a bloodthorn kill against good full dg rogues. I think now warriors have had a buff, once they receive the necessary gear they will be very strong.
Nuada:
King - 223 warrior
Soon to retire

Taranis:
130 warrior. Plan to get 220 if the lag ever fixes

Re: Mage Balance Changes

#37
Corrupt wrote:
bob the mage wrote:Disclaimer, I haven't read anything posted on this thread yet :P But krummy gave me an audio run down so, I have that...

Any change with regards to giving mages divine damage won't fix the problem. Either it overbalances mages to the point where the whole game is broken, it produces inner-class problems between fire and ice, or it defaults mages to as krummy calls it, a one skill class. Divine damage on mages would be cool, but it just doesn't fit with how the class functions, and thats fine, there are other nondivine damage avenues that can be explored.

My opinion on this matter is instead to just reduce boss elemental resists slightly and to nerf future elemental damage additions onto other classes gear. Bloodthorn and proteus are decent examples. I say decent because prot has a bit too much elemental resist so rangers and rogues still dominate the boss, but they are better than gele mordy and necro to the point where a godly mage can outdps decent rangers. Bloodthorn has decent resists and has some auto traps that limit auto damage, and as a result we have seen mages, rogues, and rangers (sorry DPS wars, ik you are people to, but, ya soz :lol:) all get legitimate kills. With the buffs coming to DPS wars maybe even they can go for kills... This was amazing progress in class balance and I would like to see more of this going forward.

However, mages need some divine work overhaul, and I think an extra 2k divine damage from the oh skill would provide that needed small bump. Its a decent skill for helping with adds and such but on bosses its pretty much worthless rn, and a small 2k damage boost could really help with that.


Other than that I really can't think of anything. Krummy and I have been going over pretty much any idea from divine attune to a proc chance for a pure divine skill hit and everything we have come up with or gone over would only result in a large potential for over balance (a potential that people like us would find and exploit the hell out of :lol: #ChMathNerds


EDIT: I'm not necessarily calling for old bosses to be redone, some make sense to favor certain classes, but i would like to see a discussion on it and some changes made, not the same to all, but having those bosses set up as antimage zones is probably not the right way to go.

Um Ugnar in the beta got lots of kills as a DPS warrior including Mordris vs poison set rogues with dg pieces and a bloodthorn kill against good full dg rogues. I think now warriors have had a buff, once they receive the necessary gear they will be very strong.

Ya this seems rly exciting. I love a dps war style wise and it will be cool to see it as a more legitimate dps class!
Gwydion - Relentless
BobsYourUncle 162+ Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior

Retired Servers: Arawn, Herne, Danu, Crom

Read my Fire Mage Guide :D

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Re: Mage Balance Changes

#39
bob the mage wrote:
Corrupt wrote:
bob the mage wrote:Disclaimer, I haven't read anything posted on this thread yet :P But krummy gave me an audio run down so, I have that...

Any change with regards to giving mages divine damage won't fix the problem. Either it overbalances mages to the point where the whole game is broken, it produces inner-class problems between fire and ice, or it defaults mages to as krummy calls it, a one skill class. Divine damage on mages would be cool, but it just doesn't fit with how the class functions, and thats fine, there are other nondivine damage avenues that can be explored.

My opinion on this matter is instead to just reduce boss elemental resists slightly and to nerf future elemental damage additions onto other classes gear. Bloodthorn and proteus are decent examples. I say decent because prot has a bit too much elemental resist so rangers and rogues still dominate the boss, but they are better than gele mordy and necro to the point where a godly mage can outdps decent rangers. Bloodthorn has decent resists and has some auto traps that limit auto damage, and as a result we have seen mages, rogues, and rangers (sorry DPS wars, ik you are people to, but, ya soz :lol:) all get legitimate kills. With the buffs coming to DPS wars maybe even they can go for kills... This was amazing progress in class balance and I would like to see more of this going forward.

However, mages need some divine work overhaul, and I think an extra 2k divine damage from the oh skill would provide that needed small bump. Its a decent skill for helping with adds and such but on bosses its pretty much worthless rn, and a small 2k damage boost could really help with that.


Other than that I really can't think of anything. Krummy and I have been going over pretty much any idea from divine attune to a proc chance for a pure divine skill hit and everything we have come up with or gone over would only result in a large potential for over balance (a potential that people like us would find and exploit the hell out of :lol: #ChMathNerds


EDIT: I'm not necessarily calling for old bosses to be redone, some make sense to favor certain classes, but i would like to see a discussion on it and some changes made, not the same to all, but having those bosses set up as antimage zones is probably not the right way to go.

Um Ugnar in the beta got lots of kills as a DPS warrior including Mordris vs poison set rogues with dg pieces and a bloodthorn kill against good full dg rogues. I think now warriors have had a buff, once they receive the necessary gear they will be very strong.

Ya this seems rly exciting. I love a dps war style wise and it will be cool to see it as a more legitimate dps class!

Btw in the beta he used 200 spite dagger lol
Nuada:
King - 223 warrior
Soon to retire

Taranis:
130 warrior. Plan to get 220 if the lag ever fixes

Re: Mage Balance Changes

#40
I went through all the posts in this thread and the divine attunement idea was really good. In mage dl/edl offhands replace the divine damage skill with a divine attunement which can be cast every 1 min or 90 seconds. It would add up to 2k divine damage (for example) to shards, blast when combined with ice attunement and bolt, firestorm when combined with fire attunement however it won't stack with the buff already provided by the elemental attunements. DL offhand would add a certain value then the EDL offhand skill would add a little more. I haven't used the dl offhand yet but I've heard from some people it doesn't do much for dps at endgame compared to rangers and rogues. All other classes have a divine offhand skill to match each other's strengths, so we should have something like that too.

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