Celtic Heroes

If you guys make a chart, I'll add it to my guide if it checks out+if you want(with credit of course).

For ice consider casting times are significantly longer and thus the impact of CD changes is much higher

The impact of the CD changes is lower then fire(if the dps test is being conducted on an infinite time assumption)
As CD gear only changes the cooldown time, the cast time drags the total reduction percent down. Which since fire has less cast time, CD gear is best for fire. Still extremely good for ice, just needed to point that out.

Yup, fire bolt is instant while ice shards have cast times making cdr more effective on fire.

If you guys make a chart, I'll add it to my guide if it checks out+if you want(with credit of course).

For ice consider casting times are significantly longer and thus the impact of CD changes is much higher

The impact of the CD changes is lower(if the dps test is being conducted on an infinite time assumption)
As CD gear only changes the cooldown time, the cast time drags the total reduction percent down. Which since fire has less cast time, CD gear is best for fire. Still extremely good for ice, just needed to point that out.

This is indeed true but assuming an infinite time is unreasonable for any bossing situation. In the practical assumption that no boss should take more then 30 min unless extremely strained on dps (which most servers as of now are not) then the initial cast time effect on ice reduction will not surpass the large reduction caused by the significantly higher cool down. It is definitely a valid point and flaw in my statement however for practical consideration and data test purposes ice is indeed more effected by the cooldown and thus a ring order will be dependent on CD and other gear.

Example: i ran total dps calculations to determine whether or not to bid on a majestic blast gele ring. The choice was either to keep an imperial shards spider ring or swap for the maj blast gele ring. At the time i had 25% shards and 30% blast CD, therefore the blast ring had a larger dps increase overall. However I now have 30% CD for both and the spider shards ring has surpassed the gele blast ring in overall dps---Point being the ring order of two fairly well established rings can easily be swapped in effectiveness based on CD combinations which isnt as much of a factor with fire gear and thus makes a ranking chart for ice a difficult thing.

^²Wrong quote rip but you get the idea :p

This is indeed true but assuming an infinite time is unreasonable for any bossing situation. In the practical assumption that no boss should take more then 30 min unless extremely strained on dps (which most servers as of now are not) then the initial cast time effect on ice reduction will not surpass the large reduction caused by the significantly higher cool down. It is definitely a valid point and flaw in my statement however for practical consideration and data test purposes ice is indeed more effected by the cooldown and thus a ring order will be dependent on CD and other gear.

True, the boss time factor does play into this. But I think you are overthinking the situation.

The time factor of the boss is a main problem of ice, when trying to weigh out how many ice shards and blasts you can get in during the battle. You are right, since the time is longer there can be more variance(aka a boss dying at 1 minute when your cooldown just finished vs having CD gear and getting an extra shot or two in). But with a long fight it grows closer to the infinite time dps number, and with a 30 minute fight it would be pretty close. The beginning unstable ice dps surges can "outdps" fire for a little, but the cast time slowly drags the ice surges behind.

So while your point is true, boss fights vary in time, so it would be hard to theorycraft like that. For simplicities sake, it would be best to use the infinite time route.

Given that the cdr are the same, they would be affected the same, regardless of their cooldown time.

Given that the cdr are the same, they would be affected the same, regardless of their cooldown time.

Is 15% of 100 the same value as 15% of 50?

no, the longer the cooldown time the more time that is being taken off, eventually fire would catch up due to shorter cast times but initially ice does have a major advantage from CD

to truly find the point where the two are in equilibrium would require alot of calculations that honestly i dont wana do ._. however the effect of the two will only be the same at one very small moment in time

As to the topic of the post you cannot assume that every mage in the game has the same CD % or even make a average representation due to the huge range of CD combos (especially with emberdrake miscs included)

Given that the cdr are the same, they would be affected the same, regardless of their cooldown time.

Is 15% of 100 the same value as 15% of 50?

no, the longer the cooldown time the more time that is being taken off, eventually fire would catch up due to shorter cast times but initially ice does have a major advantage from CD

to truly find the point where the two are in equilibrium would require alot of calculations that honestly i dont wana do ._. however the effect of the two will only be the same at one very small moment in time

As to the topic of the post you cannot assume that every mage in the game has the same CD % or even make a average representation due to the huge range of CD combos (especially with emberdrake miscs included)

Well yeah of course 15% of 100 would be more than 15% of 50. 2 firebolts equal one ice shard in terms of CD and damage. With that being said, let's make firebolt 50 and ice shards 100. As I said already 2 firebolt is equal to one ice shard so they are both 100 in the end, so their effect would be the same.

When you said eventually fire bolt will catch up to ice shards, well yeah after 2 fire bolts it will.

This is just pre-algebra stuff. Not even probably.

2 bolt=1 shard is a blanket assumption and is not true haha while damage is obviously gear based and again only equal at one small point the casting times are never at a 2:1 ratio not even at base speed. Also you cant make that statement about CD and only consider shards and bolt, blast and storm are equally effected and obviously your not getting two storms in the time of one blast haha.

Theoreticle - Cast time - Cooldown - Total time
Shards:1.000 -15.000 - 16
Blast: 3.000 - 15.000 - 18
Bolt: 0.000 - 7.000 - 7
Storm: 2.000 - 15.000 - 17

2 bolt=1 shard is a blanket assumption and is not true haha while damage is obviously gear based and again only equal at one small point the casting times are never at a 2:1 ratio not even at base speed. Also you cant make that statement about CD and only consider shards and bolt, blast and storm are equally effected and obviously your not getting two storms in the time of one blast haha.

Actually, the cast times are not 1:2 but the cooldown is perfectly 1:2. It was Furyion and I who said that fire has an advantage because the cast time for fire is quicker. We have to assume that the gear are the same because otherwise how are you going to compare? If you have more than one changing variable then this experiment is flawed. Same with cdr. We need to assume that the gear is the same for fire and ice.