Celtic Heroes

The Official Forum for Celtic Heroes, the 3D MMORPG for iOS and Android Devices

Re: Drop rates

#11
I believe those are the guidelines when submitting apps onto the Apple App Store, not an actual terms of service, and if it’s on the Apple store, then it had to be approved already.

In my personal opinion and not based on actual evidence, it’s possible that since you aren’t purchasing the “loot box” directly as you’re actually paying for the Platnium, and since platinum is obtainable in game, it would maybe be some type of loophole?
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Re: Drop rates

#12
What I did mean was they’re breaking the rules (really their terms) they have to follow as an app creator. I don’t think the use of virtual currency matters as it’s still technically a purchase via money

Given the guildelines were introduced after the games release I’m pretty sure they need to meet the standard. We were even told they will release the drop rates themselves and never did

Re: Drop rates

#14
As far as I know, Froze is correct, the statement is in the App Store Review Guidelines. If something in the app doesn't adhere to the guidelines, the app gets rejected instead of being accepted. Because CH has had several updates go through the guidelines, I don't really think Apple would have an issue with this.

Apples-Bele wrote:They are breaking Apple’s policy. Do you still want updates for CH?

There have already been several updates for CH since these guidelines were implemented. I don't see why Apple would suddenly change their minds about accepting any future updates from CH.



The way I see it, there's a couple ways this could pan out.

1. Apple doesn't even bother taking a look at CH's methods because several updates to CH have already passed through the guidelines with no issue, thus it wouldn't be worth any sort of extra investigation.
Result: Nothing changes.


2. Apple takes a closer look at CH and the platinum store, but decides that CH is in the loophole because chests are not directly purchasable with real money, so they leave it alone.
Result: Nothing changes.


3. Apple takes a closer look and decides that VR has to release all drop rates for chests. Here it can go a couple different ways depending on how strict Apple wants to be....

3a. Apple forces VR to make all drop rates completely visible in-game before using a chest. The game isn't going to like having to render hundreds of items (even if it was solely text...though Apple may force VR to load images and/or descriptions too, making it much, much worse), especially for people who buy dozens of chests at a time and spam open them.
Result: mass havoc from anyone who uses chests.

3b. Apple forces VR to make all drop rates completely visible in-game before purchasing a chest (with platinum). Still might cause lag issues by having to load in hundreds of items, but at least it would be limited to every purchase, would be much less.
Result: a major annoyance to plat buyers.

3c. (the more likely situation) is that VR will just add a button to chests that will open up the list of drop rates, saving the device render time.
Result: no big deal for most players.

3d. (the easiest solution) VR simply makes the list of drop rates available on their website or the forums. This likely won't satisfy Apple though, as the entire point is to inform the player, and most players aren't involved on external channels for the game.
Result: no big deal.



My personal guess is that nothing much will happen. Apple is really strict about their guidelines, and since CH has passed through them several times over the past year, it's very likely that it's not an issue to Apple. I also haven't heard of any games or developers that have been in trouble for not releasing drop rates, so either VR is one of the only companies to not do that, or Apple has decided to let a majority of apps get by with minimum effort (such as what chests currently have...where it tells you what you can get, just without exact numbers).

Best case scenario (for all involved...players and VR): nothing changes.
Worst case scenario: VR is forced to make some possibly large changes to how premium purchases work (functionality and/or content), platinum buyers moral goes down as they realize just how tiny the odds are of getting the one thing they want...resulting in less platinum purchases.


It may seem like Celtic Heroes is breaking the guidelines to players, but Apple doesn't really care what the players think. They have their guidelines and their methods of enforcing and applying the guidelines. It's great that so many of you are worried about VR over something like this, but there's every chance that Apple finds nothing wrong with the current situation...
Eragon123 - lvl 220 ranger
Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
Sulis
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Have questions about anything? PM me!

Latest Celtic Heroes Database Update: Character Creator! Go Team #WorldSkillsUSA!

Re: Drop rates

#15
Eragon123 wrote:As far as I know, Froze is correct, the statement is in the App Store Review Guidelines. If something in the app doesn't adhere to the guidelines, the app gets rejected instead of being accepted. Because CH has had several updates go through the guidelines, I don't really think Apple would have an issue with this.

Apples-Bele wrote:They are breaking Apple’s policy. Do you still want updates for CH?

There have already been several updates for CH since these guidelines were implemented. I don't see why Apple would suddenly change their minds about accepting any future updates from CH.



The way I see it, there's a couple ways this could pan out.

1. Apple doesn't even bother taking a look at CH's methods because several updates to CH have already passed through the guidelines with no issue, thus it wouldn't be worth any sort of extra investigation.
Result: Nothing changes.


2. Apple takes a closer look at CH and the platinum store, but decides that CH is in the loophole because chests are not directly purchasable with real money, so they leave it alone.
Result: Nothing changes.


3. Apple takes a closer look and decides that VR has to release all drop rates for chests. Here it can go a couple different ways depending on how strict Apple wants to be....

3a. Apple forces VR to make all drop rates completely visible in-game before using a chest. The game isn't going to like having to render hundreds of items (even if it was solely text...though Apple may force VR to load images and/or descriptions too, making it much, much worse), especially for people who buy dozens of chests at a time and spam open them.
Result: mass havoc from anyone who uses chests.

3b. Apple forces VR to make all drop rates completely visible in-game before purchasing a chest (with platinum). Still might cause lag issues by having to load in hundreds of items, but at least it would be limited to every purchase, would be much less.
Result: a major annoyance to plat buyers.

3c. (the more likely situation) is that VR will just add a button to chests that will open up the list of drop rates, saving the device render time.
Result: no big deal for most players.

3d. (the easiest solution) VR simply makes the list of drop rates available on their website or the forums. This likely won't satisfy Apple though, as the entire point is to inform the player, and most players aren't involved on external channels for the game.
Result: no big deal.



My personal guess is that nothing much will happen. Apple is really strict about their guidelines, and since CH has passed through them several times over the past year, it's very likely that it's not an issue to Apple. I also haven't heard of any games or developers that have been in trouble for not releasing drop rates, so either VR is one of the only companies to not do that, or Apple has decided to let a majority of apps get by with minimum effort (such as what chests currently have...where it tells you what you can get, just without exact numbers).

Best case scenario (for all involved...players and VR): nothing changes.
Worst case scenario: VR is forced to make some possibly large changes to how premium purchases work (functionality and/or content), platinum buyers moral goes down as they realize just how tiny the odds are of getting the one thing they want...resulting in less platinum purchases.


It may seem like Celtic Heroes is breaking the guidelines to players, but Apple doesn't really care what the players think. They have their guidelines and their methods of enforcing and applying the guidelines. It's great that so many of you are worried about VR over something like this, but there's every chance that Apple finds nothing wrong with the current situation...

Apps are required to follow the Apple review guidelines.
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Re: Drop rates

#16
Froze wrote:I’m tempted to say hero haste lixes drop rates were improved after the Unity update, but this is based solely on other people’s accounts rather than actual data collecting.


Perhaps, I have gotten more hastes than usual but I've not noticed anything else being at a higher rate. But that's just one item
Brevity is the soul of wit so i will talk your ears off.

Re: Drop rates

#17
Apples-Bele wrote:Apps are required to follow the Apple review guidelines.


I completely agree, and I don't think I was arguing the opposite....but in case you didn't catch it from the book I wrote ( :? ) my point is that Apple decides what does or does not follow its guidelines, not random app users. It may be extremely obvious to many people that Celtic Heroes does not follow the guidelines, but if Apple doesn't see the situation the same way, nothing needs to be done.

Either way, now that Lorhad was kind enough to get in touch with Apple, we might find out in the next couple weeks. If no news comes out, then it will be obvious that Apple swept it under the rug and doesn't have an issue with the current situation. If VR has to start making changes, we will find out sometime before the next update (if Apple requires something to be done before the next build is released).
Eragon123 - lvl 220 ranger
Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
Sulis
Sneaky o.O
Have questions about anything? PM me!

Latest Celtic Heroes Database Update: Character Creator! Go Team #WorldSkillsUSA!

Re: Drop rates

#18
Muldar did post something about it about a year ago.

Image


Disclosing the odds for loot boxes does appear in the Apple Developers Guidlines although it isn’t exactly specific what it means by how it goes about disclosing the odds. It doesn’t seem that strictly enforced and a link out-of-app website would probably work to satisfy it. “Each type item” could potentially just mean a catergory for elixirs, fashion, fashion tokens, Dragon eggs etc rather than each individual item.

Not entirely sure that purchasing the Platnium that is technically obtainable in-game and then buying the chest would fit under the guidelines made last year...but I’m not an app developer so wouldn’t know specifics.
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Re: Drop rates

#19
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Fyi for anyone confused. This is the rule. Doesn't say anything about where these "drop rates" are supposed to be disclosed to my knowledge just that they are supposed to disclose them to "customers" prior to purchase.
Brevity is the soul of wit so i will talk your ears off.

Re: Drop rates

#20
Mdunc1982 wrote:
Image


Fyi for anyone confused. This is the rule. Doesn't say anything about where these "drop rates" are supposed to be disclosed to my knowledge just that they are supposed to disclose them to "customers" prior to purchase.



Yeah, I tried to hit that in my post (didn't provide the image, so thanks for that!)

Because it says to disclose them to the customers prior to purchase, my guess is that it would need to be immediately available to the customer before they click "Buy" (3a, 3b, 3c). However, that's my interpretation. Apple may have a different idea.
I agree that an easier option would be to just make them available somewhere online (3d), but it may or may not satisfy Apple.
Eragon123 - lvl 220 ranger
Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
Sulis
Sneaky o.O
Have questions about anything? PM me!

Latest Celtic Heroes Database Update: Character Creator! Go Team #WorldSkillsUSA!

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