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Re: What is the purpose of group exp penalty?

#11
Banzai416 wrote:
Zkills wrote:Question still hasn’t been answered... what’s the point of it?

I already understand how it works and it’s not what the thread is about. I will always see it as penalizing because I would always get more exp solo than leveling with a partner unless if I’m lixing purely on 4* mobs. Druids suffer from this the most

It keeps the game balanced. Back in the day many had the same complaints so otm implemented group bonus. Remove xp/gold being shared you could get 120k from one gold boss if you fill grp with alts. As for xp players would be forced to group lvl then which is not what everybody wants. Atm lvling in group is still better unless you’re stacked in lux and hero combos.

Well A. You’re not forced to do anything... leveling in a group would be much more recommended tho.
And B. This isn’t “back in the day” anymore... The tower/Gardens are a mean place lol, much more so than stonevale

I understand the gold, but still don’t understand the exp
Zkills level 111 warrior, Proud general/last active member of the beloved KodiakReavers of Belenus, the G.O.A.T clan.

Professor/Detective Zkills, op mage of Epona, chieftain of KodiakReavers

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Re: What is the purpose of group exp penalty?

#12
Skerwald wrote:See it this way. You kill 1 mob a minute and your lix partner does too. Together you kill 2 mobs a minute. Normally you get say 5000 xp for that. With the group bonus you get 5000/2 × 1.3= 3250 xp. But you kill 2 mobs in the same time you would've killed 1 mob, so you get 3250 × 2= 6500 xp. That's 1500 more than you would've done alone. Of course it won't be as perfect as this always, if you get worse xp, then your lix partner is simply leeching on you. But imo lixing together is very beneficial, you won't burn through as many restos/idols as you would alone while you get more xp and in large groups you can often drop the hp/haste lix and still get pretty good xp.

Almost seems like you didnt read this Z. This is exactly the point of it. Its just better all around. (Provided the other guy can hold his weight)

Edit: The biggest problem you can run into this situation is having far better lux than your partner. My druid was this way cause I spared no expense on him and he was forced to solo. I cant tell you how many times I screwed up and caused myself to die while on lix. This resets the mob and messes your entire lix up. Heaven forbid you do it more than once. For this reason alone I was a little less generous on my rangers lvl gear just so it could grp lix.
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Re: What is the purpose of group exp penalty?

#13
SupremeDruid wrote:
Skerwald wrote:See it this way. You kill 1 mob a minute and your lix partner does too. Together you kill 2 mobs a minute. Normally you get say 5000 xp for that. With the group bonus you get 5000/2 × 1.3= 3250 xp. But you kill 2 mobs in the same time you would've killed 1 mob, so you get 3250 × 2= 6500 xp. That's 1500 more than you would've done alone. Of course it won't be as perfect as this always, if you get worse xp, then your lix partner is simply leeching on you. But imo lixing together is very beneficial, you won't burn through as many restos/idols as you would alone while you get more xp and in large groups you can often drop the hp/haste lix and still get pretty good xp.

Almost seems like you didnt read this Z. This is exactly the point of it. Its just better all around. (Provided the other guy can hold his weight)

Edit: The biggest problem you can run into this situation is having far better lux than your partner. My druid was this way cause I spared no expense on him and he was forced to solo. I cant tell you how many times I screwed up and caused myself to die while on lix. This resets the mob and messes your entire lix up. Heaven forbid you do it more than once. For this reason alone I was a little less generous on my rangers lvl gear just so it could grp lix.

Yes I read and understand... but idc about what it looks like on paper, what I care about is how it actually works ingame and one thing that is for sure is that leveling without this “bonus” would be so much more enjoyable because you would no longer have to worry about whether or not your partner will slow you down or about having too many people in your group slowing you down... each added player to your group is a positive no matter how poorly geared they are
Zkills level 111 warrior, Proud general/last active member of the beloved KodiakReavers of Belenus, the G.O.A.T clan.

Professor/Detective Zkills, op mage of Epona, chieftain of KodiakReavers

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Re: What is the purpose of group exp penalty?

#14
My friends and I just started playing CH. We're all level 60 or under. We have no money for lixes or luxes and don't even know where to get them if we did. We fight in Catacombs, Shalemont, and Stonevale. And we are not so seasoned as to be hyper-efficient and hyper-organized in the way we hunt. It is so much more fun to fight in a group than solo, but this is truly a penalty and not a bonus for lower level players.

Re: What is the purpose of group exp penalty?

#15
Zkills wrote:
SupremeDruid wrote:
Skerwald wrote:See it this way. You kill 1 mob a minute and your lix partner does too. Together you kill 2 mobs a minute. Normally you get say 5000 xp for that. With the group bonus you get 5000/2 × 1.3= 3250 xp. But you kill 2 mobs in the same time you would've killed 1 mob, so you get 3250 × 2= 6500 xp. That's 1500 more than you would've done alone. Of course it won't be as perfect as this always, if you get worse xp, then your lix partner is simply leeching on you. But imo lixing together is very beneficial, you won't burn through as many restos/idols as you would alone while you get more xp and in large groups you can often drop the hp/haste lix and still get pretty good xp.

Almost seems like you didnt read this Z. This is exactly the point of it. Its just better all around. (Provided the other guy can hold his weight)

Edit: The biggest problem you can run into this situation is having far better lux than your partner. My druid was this way cause I spared no expense on him and he was forced to solo. I cant tell you how many times I screwed up and caused myself to die while on lix. This resets the mob and messes your entire lix up. Heaven forbid you do it more than once. For this reason alone I was a little less generous on my rangers lvl gear just so it could grp lix.

Yes I read and understand... but idc about what it looks like on paper, what I care about is how it actually works ingame and one thing that is for sure is that leveling without this “bonus” would be so much more enjoyable because you would no longer have to worry about whether or not your partner will slow you down or about having too many people in your group slowing you down... each added player to your group is a positive no matter how poorly geared they are


Then its perhaps me that isn't understanding what your asking. As I stated before, a difference in lux can cause the grp to not be profitable xp wise, but i think only in extreme cases. Having a tower skill ring vs a 200 runic ring wont hurt ya that much. You have to add all of the lux, plat items, and player skill up. If a player has the best lux set up but cant figure out how to use it, that lux wont do him any good and thus may lead to having similar dps output to a skilled player with mediocre gear. It all boils down to risks/reward. I would recommend experimenting with the lix partner to see if your a good match and then go from there.

As for enjoyment, that is just personal preference. Personally I see engaging in endgame activities as the enjoying part of this game while lvling is just a grind to that end.

To your last sentence, each added player does not in fact provide a bonus. There is a fluctuating cap (based on the mobs you will engage). You have to judge how many mobs you can kill as a grp in a certain amount of time compared to the mobs respawn time. I have found myself in solo lix situations where I clear a room by myself. In this situation a grp would do nothing for me as the mobs do not respawn fast enough to meet our need.
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Re: What is the purpose of group exp penalty?

#17
e5c4p3artist wrote:My friends and I just started playing CH. We're all level 60 or under. We have no money for lixes or luxes and don't even know where to get them if we did. We fight in Catacombs, Shalemont, and Stonevale. And we are not so seasoned as to be hyper-efficient and hyper-organized in the way we hunt. It is so much more fun to fight in a group than solo, but this is truly a penalty and not a bonus for lower level players.

It is only a penalty if you go about it the wrong way. Things like the groups make-up (Classes), Lux, Plat items, and skills which for newcomers are not the easiest to obtain.
In your specific situation with no lux or plat items I think the class difference is why you are not seeing a benefit. It can easily be seen that the classes are not balanced to one another, this is why pvp is so horrible atm. A base lvl and gear rogue will be able to out dps a base lvl and gear druid any day. There is no competition there whatsoever and this is also why as a druid it can be hard to find a grp to lix with. This does not just apply to druids however, take mages for example. They deal high amounts of dps but it is differant kinds of damage (Fire and Ice) compared to a rogue (Poison and Pierce). These have different levels of resists on different mobs so naturally a mob with low pierce resistance will be killed by the rogue rather than the mage. Classes have the ability to use all different kinds of gear that can be used to bridge this gap. You may have seem a recent post of a druid getting a gele kill. All classes have benefits and penalties over other classes, example is rogue vs ranger: Rogue has high damage output but rangers have ranged combat abilities which allow them to take less damage than a rogue and where a rogue may have to put points in vit to stay alive, a ranger can put those points in str to do more damage. You just have to find the right class that works for you.

As far as your specific grp is concerned it would help to know the classes, notable lux, and skills that are used to have a better understanding on how to help you achieve these bonuses and unlock your true leveling potential.
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Re: What is the purpose of group exp penalty?

#18
Apples-Bele wrote:Would be abused to multi log level alts

Yes it would be greatly abused and collapse most if not all of the server economies due to inflation.

Edit: Regarding a previous post concerning how it can be abusing through gold mobs/bosses. I think the addition of crits broke the system enough
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220 Druid SupremeDruid
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Re: What is the purpose of group exp penalty?

#19
Zskills, it doesn't matter if the bonus is removed or not. It's about the time it takes to kill a mob.

Person A has op gear, it takes him 40 seconds to kill a mob, person B has bad gear, it takes 60 seconds for this person. If they level together, it takes them 25 seconds to kill a mob. The xp is 5000, so every 25 seconds each person gets 5000/2×1.3= 3250 xp.

15 minutes = 900 seconds
Solo person A: 900/40×5000= 112.500 xp
Solo person B: 900/60×5000= 75.000 xp
Solo A + Solo B: 112.500+75.000= 187.500 xp

Group: 900/25×3250= 117.000 xp per person.
Group together: 117.000×2= 234.000 xp
So the group xp is better.

Now, if the bonus were to be removed it would be removed.

1/2 of the xp per person
900/25×2500= 90.000 xp
Together: 90.000×2= 180.000 xp

100% of the xp per person (which I think you meant)
900/25×5000= 180.000 xp per person
Together: 180.000×2= 360.000 xp per person

So this pretty much shows that the point of the xp bonus is to make group leveling still beneficial for people regardless the difference in gear/build etc. Simply halfing the xp without a bonus would only benefit the lowest dps. Keeping the same xp regardless the amount of group members would be a ridiculous amount of xp, it's far too much as opposed to the xp you get without grouping. This system is being used with faction points, no penalties/bonuses for grouping, it's a good thing there, but with xp it's simply too over powered.
Last edited by Skerwald on Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is the purpose of group exp penalty?

#20
Skerwald wrote:Zskills, it doesn't matter if the bonus is removed or not. It's about the time it takes to kill a mob.

Person A has op gear, it takes him 40 seconds to kill a mob, person B has bad gear, it takes 60 seconds for this person. If they level together, it takes them 25 seconds to kill a mob. The xp is 5000, so every 25 seconds each person gets 5000/2×1.3= 3250 xp.

15 minutes = 900 seconds
Solo person A: 900/40×5000= 112.500 xp
Solo person B: 900/60×5000= 75.000 xp
Solo A + Solo B: 112.500+75.000= 187.500 xp

Group: 900/25×3250= 117.000 xp per person.
Group together: 117.000×2= 234.000 xp
So the group xp is better.

Now, if the bonus were to be removed it would be removed.

1/2 of the xp per person
900/25×2500= 90.000 xp
Together: 90.000×2= 180.000 xp

100% of the xp per person (which I think you meant)
900/25×5000= 180.000 xp per person
Together: 180.000×2= 360.000 xp per person

So this pretty much shows that the point of the xp bonus is to make group leveling still beneficial for people regardless the difference in gear/build etc. Simply halfing the xp without a bonus would only benefit the lowest dps. Keeping the same xp regardless the amount of group members would be a ridiculous amount of xp, it's far too much as opposed to the xp you get without grouping. This system is being used with faction points, no penalties/bonuses for grouping, it's a good thing there, but with xp it's simply too over powered.

Ya basically what I was trying to convey but with math haha :)
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