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Re: Dkp with decay

#21
Thefreeze wrote:
Curry30423 wrote:For the sake of our dying clan on herne, someone please list the benefits of dkp with decay. Specifically answer this question: how is it fair to someone who spent all their time getting highest dkp in clan If they go inactive and it’s all erased eventually?

Our clan doesn’t believe it’s a good system and I’m here to argue otherwise, would appreciate some help._.


The benefits are that if you kill a boss recently and it drops some items that r nice , someone who did work years ago (Who was useful then but absolutely no use on the boss that dropped the item) cannot get it in an unfair way, decay is specially developed to award those who are active and promotes people to go to bosses on a regular basis, it stops those stacked with points stealing good items they will probably never use in the game environment as much as the active players do.

it is fair to active and new players over old and inactive (old tied to inactive they can be older but still very much active)

While what you say is right the tone is off and it has a really sharp negative conotation.
Not only does a decay system largely depend on how steep the decay is, but also just because someone is stacked doesn’t mean they aren’t active. What decay does is it rewards newer players and gives them a fighting chance at gear that they otherwise wouldn’t have more so than reward active players.
As long as the DKP rewards aren’t outrageously high in value in comparison to what the minimum bids are (like a 500 reward and a 5 min bid as an example) than there shouldn’t be too large of an issue with old player vs new other than that the new player will have to do their fair work to the clan.

There are plenty of other checks that clans can put in to make sure that an active member would get the drop, but decay isn’t always the best system for a clan, it really just depends.
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Re: Dkp with decay

#22
Curry30423 wrote:For the sake of our dying clan on herne, someone please list the benefits of dkp with decay. Specifically answer this question: how is it fair to someone who spent all their time getting highest dkp in clan If they go inactive and it’s all erased eventually?

Our clan doesn’t believe it’s a good system and I’m here to argue otherwise, would appreciate some help._.


With new bosses, comes new loot.

Ask them this question:
- Players which have been very, very active in the past, but now have slowed down
perhaps even come to a stop in activity, how is it fair they get the same chance
on a godly/void drop from BT, when most of the points were earned during Necro or early Gelebron days?


How should such a decay system be implemented, and if based on activity,
what should count towards positive activity? Is only doing End Game good enough, or
should one have to attend a certain number of DL/EDL bosses over a period of time as well?

Should the activity back in the past be noticed as a way to help clan to where it is today?
If so, should there be a % limit of how much decay there can be in total, or would a fixed decrease
in points every month "push" half active members to log in and help just a tad bit more?

I dont know, but decay seem logical, problem is how to implement it in a good, reasonable way?
If earlier players do return, it can be a huge turn off to have to start it all from scratch again, possibly making the returning player not want to start playing again.

----
Edit
Example:
Passive money will, over time, be devalued due to inflation. The money you earned 2 years ago will not be worth
the same today. You may spend it exactly how you would like to, but you cant buy as much as before.
However if you actively work to make more money, or actively make good investments, your money will be active and
increase in value.

The same with DKP. It should reward players who are aktive (Active DKP) and inactive players (Passive DKP) should
have some sort of Decay (Inflation). If you invest time smart in the game (bossing, helping the clan etc) your overall value
in the clan should go up
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Re: Dkp with decay

#23
In my clan inactive leaders lose voting power. We have a mix of different systems for different items. Voting for some and dkp auction for others. Our dkp system is not decay and I like it that way. I wouldnt like it if my gold slowly eroded if I didnt use it or earn more of it. To me dkp decay puts a more hardcore slant in the clan. If you're leaders are looking out for themselves before the clan thats just selfish unless its not in the clan ideals. If youre clan is dying or becoming inactive wouldnt decay make it so those who can log are more pressured to? If someone doesnt want to play being pressured to log would make them hate the game.
Last edited by Xsyklz on Sat May 26, 2018 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Dkp with decay

#24
bob the mage wrote:The way I see it DKP should be used as a way to measure time and effort put into a clan. It never sums up ones total worth or time given however, and as such it shouldn't just be seen as a currency. For example when I played on arawn and the void wand dropped the mages told me I could get it for min DKP (I didn't cuz It felt wrong to take it for min knowing that the wand I was currently using wouldn't go for min, even though it did :lol:). Examples like this happen all over the place on all servers where clannies are respectful and back off on certain drops and instead of DKP speaking alone let other things come into play.
If a clan member is so selfish that they are going to come back after not playing for two years and start taking all the drops because of all the DKP they had when the left, maybe they need to reevaluate why they are in the clan, and as Armo said a leader should step in and do something.

I haven't really seen a need for a decay system but I get why some clans like it. To each clan their own I guess. No system is perfect and its really up to the clan as to what they want.
Right now I'm facing an uphill battle for the second time :lol: (joined resurgence way late cuz was blacklisted for 4 years cuz I was an annoying kid :lol: and it took 2 years of saving to have enough DKP to win squat cuz no decay ;) ) but I don't mind it. Those with a lot of DKP have been in the clan a long time and they deserve it. If I can't be patient and wait for my DKP to build up I probably don't deserve a chance to save it up. I'm new and I should have to put in some time to earn good gear over those who have put thousands of hours into the clan.

Its all preference though and each clan should build itself in a way where the clannies see it to be fair.

Agree
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Re: Dkp with decay

#25
Losing dkp over time is like putting money in the bank and them taking some of it since you didn't use it. Wouldnt like it would ya? Why do we implement dkp systems? So people can be rewarded for their hard work, but how can they be rewarded for their hard work if rl drags them from the game for a little?. Most of the people on this game are children and dont understand that real life gets in the way all the time. I literally couldn't play completely actively even if i wanted to. I definitely disagree with decaying dkp, Cause dkp was made mainly to reward the people, not the clan, though it does both. Of course im speaking for fingal, I was the one who suggested and succeeded in bringing dkp to my old clan.

Plus this scenario doesn't happen too often, and its just gonna hurt us more than help us.
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Re: Dkp with decay

#26
I believe that the mindset in members should be that they are getting geared not because they earned it, but because they can utilize it as effectively as possible to benefit the clan. Only those who can actually play will be able to utilize the gear- not someone from 6 years ago who stacked up some points and pops on 6 years later and plays, gets geared from unused points, and then quits again. Decay systems solves just that; members who are currently active will have dkp while members who were active a few years ago won't.

Without decay system, you can have a member who collects little amounts of dkp over a span of a long time while someone who joined recently has high attendance and contributes a lot. The member who has high attendance would be the one who can utilize the gear most effectively, but since there isn't a decay system he would not be getting geared as well as the other member who has low attendance and just stacked up points over a long period of time. Similar to like what Bob mentioned, dkp should not be seen as a type of currency so it should never have properties as them. The moment you view it as such, the moment the mentality will be that everyone attends raids, collects "money" and "buys" gear just for themselves, and not for the better of the clan, and it may just be me but that is definitely not the attitude that I would view a good clan. This means that the argument about decay being unfair for players who put in effort before but not anymore is just not a good argument at all.Let me ask you one question and one question only: Who would the gear be most effectively given to in an attempt to benefit the clan as a whole? The one who is currently active or the one who is not active anymore but was active in the past?
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Re: Dkp with decay

#27
tayilern wrote:Losing dkp over time is like putting money in the bank and them taking some of it since you didn't use it. Wouldnt like it would ya? Why do we implement dkp systems? So people can be rewarded for their hard work, but how can they be rewarded for their hard work if rl drags them from the game for a little?. Most of the people on this game are children and dont understand that real life gets in the way all the time. I literally couldn't play completely actively even if i wanted to. I definitely disagree with decaying dkp, Cause dkp was made mainly to reward the people, not the clan, though it does both. Of course im speaking for fingal, I was the one who suggested and succeeded in bringing dkp to my old clan.

Plus this scenario doesn't happen too often, and its just gonna hurt us more than help us.


Most clans that implement decay do it with minimal decay so that if you're only gone for a short amount of time, you won't really be impacted. When you don't have decay, then you had stuff happen like what happened to us and a few players with high dkp quit hadn't logged in for months but would still bid on items. So the active players were losing items to players that had no intention of logging, they just wanted to collect loot.
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