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Re: Should spawn windows of older bosses be shorten after gardens releases.

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:53 am
by Shivahh
Neero. wrote:The spawn time is fine, the problem is window being incredibly long and random. In my opinion all raids should have a spawn window of 5/10 minutes max, just like prot. Make every raid 72 hours respawn timer with a 5/10 minutes window, given how many raids are due at the same time nowadays. This way servers with competition will have much more fun just like it will be way less stressful for all the servers without comp.

+1 that would make the game worth coming back for

Re: Should spawn windows of older bosses be shorten after gardens releases.

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:32 am
by Muldar
Definitely something to consider.
We will be analyzing the boss spread between clans post Corrupted Gardens to determine the effectiveness of the zone and if it is drawing players away from older bosses.
While I understand the desire for a 5 - 10 minute window we probably wouldn't cut it down so drastically but it is up for review.
I'll be discussing it further with the team.



LeGenDzZ wrote:There was lots of feedback on this, and both sides, dominant and non-dominant pretty much agreed that it is futile to camp a raid for up to 36 hours when window can be reduced to something like 6-12 hours. The counter reasoning that non-dominant clans can magically stumble upon these raids is still laughable. Both clans from the opposite ends of the spectrum camp these raids until they spawn in a bid to not lose out.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=93409&p=736657

Re: Should spawn windows of older bosses be shorten after gardens releases.

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:18 am
by Robert
Muldar wrote:Definitely something to consider.
We will be analyzing the boss spread between clans post Corrupted Gardens to determine the effectiveness of the zone and if it is drawing players away from older bosses.

You design raids that force people to create large clans (which kills competition) so I don’t see how the “boss spread” is something that’s analysed - or considered important

For example, making a boss have twice the health doesn’t increase the difficulty or the skill required for it to be killed, it just means you NEED more people - obviously efficiency to a point helps.

Having an extra two mob at gelebron doesn’t increase the raids difficulty, it just needs an extra tank.

I think there’s a big conflation between difficulty and numbers required at OTM. The numbers game is tantamount to comparing answering 100 GCSE Questions vs 10 A-Level, simply increasing the numbers doesn’t actually make them harder, someone could get 100% on the former and 0% on the latter.

We NEED a raid like the original iteration of Necro, where a good strategy was more important than bringing excessive amounts of people.

Re: Should spawn windows of older bosses be shorten after gardens releases.

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:27 am
by Ventius
Neero. wrote:The spawn time is fine, the problem is window being incredibly long and random. In my opinion all raids should have a spawn window of 5/10 minutes max, just like prot. Make every raid 72 hours respawn timer with a 5/10 minutes window, given how many raids are due at the same time nowadays. This way servers with competition will have much more fun just like it will be way less stressful for all the servers without comp. No need to make dozens of lvl 1 camper toons, just run your main there 15 minutes before boss spawns
-1 to a 24, 48 or 72 hour window. One time zone would monopolise all the kills. Prot is great with its 20 hour window. If its always killed on spawn it rotates to every zone. A much better and fairer timer for everyone would be 20, 40, 60 etc. so spawn times will always change

Re: Should spawn windows of older bosses be shorten after gardens releases.

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:28 am
by Muldar
Robert wrote:
Muldar wrote:Definitely something to consider.
We will be analyzing the boss spread between clans post Corrupted Gardens to determine the effectiveness of the zone and if it is drawing players away from older bosses.

You design raids that force people to create large clans (which kills competition) so I don’t see how the “boss spread” is something that’s analysed - or considered important

For example, making a boss have twice the health doesn’t increase the difficulty or the skill required for it to be killed, it just means you NEED more people - obviously efficiency to a point helps.

Having an extra two mob at gelebron doesn’t increase the raids difficulty, it just needs an extra tank.

I think there’s a big conflation between difficulty and numbers required at OTM. The numbers game is tantamount to comparing answering 100 GCSE Questions vs 10 A-Level, simply increasing the numbers doesn’t actually make them harder, someone could get 100% on the former and 0% on the latter.

We NEED a raid like the original iteration of Necro, where a good strategy was more important than bringing excessive amounts of people.


By "boss spread" I am referring to the point of moving clans away from older bosses and towards newer bosses.
I am not referring to the actual fight mechanics or numbers.

Re: Should spawn windows of older bosses be shorten after gardens releases.

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:33 am
by LeGenDzZ
Neero. wrote:The spawn time is fine, the problem is window being incredibly long and random. In my opinion all raids should have a spawn window of 5/10 minutes max, just like prot. Make every raid 72 hours respawn timer with a 5/10 minutes window, given how many raids are due at the same time nowadays. This way servers with competition will have much more fun just like it will be way less stressful for all the servers without comp. No need to make dozens of lvl 1 camper toons, just run your main there 15 minutes before boss spawns

That short of a window would be great, but have to remember that raids will then start spawning on the same timezone for a while, and take ages to shift to other time zones. When you take into consideration times when we have usual resets during the week it becomes even worse.

Re: Should spawn windows of older bosses be shorten after gardens releases.

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:38 am
by Robert
Muldar wrote:
By "boss spread" I am referring to the point of moving clans away from older bosses and towards newer bosses.
I am not referring to the actual fight mechanics or numbers.

I feel there’s a big disconnect between the endgame players and OTM staff here.

There is no world where anything you release (endgame) is going to stop a clan from killing Mordris, Necro or Hrungnir.
You need EDL Weapons to win endgame bosses, you need DL weapons to make EDL. You need lockers to win DL Bosses. You need Hrung, Mord and Necro gear for lockers to win Snorri.

Unless you fix boss locking mechanics, and/or make them more accessible to smaller clans (so that it’s not only large ones that can kill them) then nothing you release will actually change anything.

Re: Should spawn windows of older bosses be shorten after gardens releases.

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:40 am
by Neero.
Ventius wrote:
Neero. wrote:The spawn time is fine, the problem is window being incredibly long and random. In my opinion all raids should have a spawn window of 5/10 minutes max, just like prot. Make every raid 72 hours respawn timer with a 5/10 minutes window, given how many raids are due at the same time nowadays. This way servers with competition will have much more fun just like it will be way less stressful for all the servers without comp. No need to make dozens of lvl 1 camper toons, just run your main there 15 minutes before boss spawns
-1 to a 24, 48 or 72 hour window. One time zone would monopolise all the kills. Prot is great with its 20 hour window. If its always killed on spawn it rotates to every zone. A much better and fairer timer for everyone would be 20, 40, 60 etc. so spawn times will always change

Yes, I didn’t think about that, it would be best to have the window shifting to all timezones, but with a 5/10 minutes spawn window.

Re: Should spawn windows of older bosses be shorten after gardens releases.

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:43 am
by Muldar
Robert wrote:
Muldar wrote:
By "boss spread" I am referring to the point of moving clans away from older bosses and towards newer bosses.
I am not referring to the actual fight mechanics or numbers.

I feel there’s a big disconnect between the endgame players and OTM staff here.

There is no world where anything you release (endgame) is going to stop a clan from killing Mordris, Necro or Hrungnir.
You need EDL Weapons to win endgame bosses, you need DL weapons to make EDL. You need lockers to win DL Bosses. You need Hrung, Mord and Necro gear for lockers to win Snorri.

Unless you fix boss locking mechanics, and/or make them more accessible to smaller clans (so that it’s not only large ones that can kill them) then nothing you release will actually change anything.


I am aware, but what I am discussing is clans over camping a boss as they feel they cannot "move on" from older bosses (A clans gear requirement will always be there however)
For instance:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93296&p=735720#p735721

Re: Should spawn windows of older bosses be shorten after gardens releases.

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:57 am
by Neero.
Muldar wrote:Definitely something to consider.
We will be analyzing the boss spread between clans post Corrupted Gardens to determine the effectiveness of the zone and if it is drawing players away from older bosses.
While I understand the desire for a 5 - 10 minute window we probably wouldn't cut it down so drastically but it is up for review.
I'll be discussing it further with the team.


Thank you for the answer, but what is the reason behind the longer windows over the 5/10 minutes window? I thought after prot, that would have been the trend for the other raids too