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Yet another DKP system.

#1
While I've never fully participated in a working DKP system, I've witnessed the ongoing discussions about DKP with/out decay and I've wondered if perhaps there could be a third system that balances between the two, one that rewards players for activity without removing points from less active players.

Please note that I have never managed a DKP system, and likely never will, but thought that this was an idea worth sharing. Also, I'll probably be editing this following critique and/or if I think of anything else... (or make corrections :D )
That being said, I would appreciate comments from people more familiar with DKP systems; what pros/cons do you see?
(Also, it is quite likely that a similar system has already been proposed. If so, I meant not to plagiarise, I just didn't see this anywhere, so I thought I'd share it now. :D)

Active/Passive DKP: (Raid/Archive)
Mechanics:
This system would function very similarly to the general DKP system outlined by many; Player still earn points by participating in raids and purchase gear with points. Pretty much any/all player-point allotment, gear pricing, and bidding systems would/could apply. The difference would be that every raid would have an expiration date(1-A) for the points earned and items dropped.
Points before the expiration point would be active points (raid points) and could be used to purchase raid gear (yet to expire drops).
After the expiration point(2) raid drops would become archived drops and raid points would be converted to passive (archive) points(7). Archived gear can be purchased with archived points which do not expire or decay.

Comparison:
-DKP Without Decay(3): New players are handicapped by point deficit with senior players. Furthermore, active players can lose bids to inactive players that have a large backlog of points from a long time ago.
-DKP with Decay: While new, active players are able to compete for fresh gear on more equal ground, archive points decay over time, penalizing the less active (potentially senior) players.
-Active/Passive DKP: New players receive an equal proportion of raid points and thus can bid for fresh gear on equal footing(4). Less active, senior players with a backlog of (archive) points are still able to spend their points at their leisure (on archived gear)(5)(6).


Notes:
1-A): The specific amount of time I do not have a good reference for, having not done many large-scale raids, but I'm imagining a few hours minimum, a week or so maximum depending upon the activity of the clan(1-B).
1-B): The expiration date should be universal; (example: ) Upon kill a general (designated secretary, etc.) logs the raid (many clans have guildlaunch stuff for this), then participants must log their attendance themselves (all provable; screenshots, etc.). This way the cutoff for everyone's points is simultaneous; someone can't intentionally delay logging their attendance to extend their points' expiration time (saving for better gear).
2.): I recognize that it is quite likely that multiple raids could occur within this time thus giving the player a balance of points with multiple expiration dates, but this is why excel is your friend. :) It also adds a major incentive for players to be prompt in recording data(1-B).
3.): Basically all the reasons for decay over no-decay apply. :)
4.): The new player penalty due to a fresh start (empty account) (see: "DKP Without Decay") is only as long as the time from joining clan (and/or attaining DKP status) to the end of the first expiration point (for raid points at least; archived points do reflect seniority).
5.): Less active players will inevitably have a less desirable selection due to the good drops being snatched up in raid bids, but that's the penalty of not participating :P. Less active players can spend points "at their leisure" knowing that they don't decay.
6.): Describing bidding strategy: As with decay, raid points have an element of time attached to them; it is a balance between waiting as long as possible on hopes of getting potentially better items, but at the risk of the points expiring without winning anything (from the raid pool (the better pool)) In the archives is the chance that every once in a while, due to: the drop/bidder ratio being high enough, slow bids (expires before people place bids), or no demand for a particular item by raid bidders, something good will slip through to the archives. Thus, even within the archives, there will likely be items that are in higher demand, so there is still an element of time involved. :D
7-A): For more decay: Potential to add a conversion multiplier here based upon raid attendance. Multiplier would be >1 for more active players and <1 for less active players. This would mean that their actual archived total would not decay, but rather their rate of conversion. (rate would obviously have both an upper cap (diminishing successive returns and decays over time to prevent domination) and lower threshold (if multiplier reaches 0 it breaks the formula. Also to prevent inactive players from being at a disadvantage to even new players.). Rate of increase/decrease per attendance/absence would depend upon clan size/activity-as-a-whole.) (Not sure that I like this more than simple decay, but I'm including it for balance.).
7-B): For less decay (or even inflation): Potential to add a conversion multiplier here based upon seniority (how long been in clan and/or rank). Multiplier would of course have a hard upper cap (being the chieftain), and all other ranks would be a percentage (based upon clan size/activity-as-a-whole) of the cap. (In some ways this is worse than the original without decay method, but it has some merit in of itself, so I'm including it for balance.)
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Re: Yet another DKP system.

#2
Love the idea, Mind. Wish this was in place before my year long hiatus last November! Such a sad, sad waste of my DKP :cry:

This system would benefit all without impeding on others. I'll bring it up to our Chief and see if he likes the idea as well. Hopefully it's not too difficult to implement and keep track of.

Nice job, Mind!
Would you kindly?

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Re: Yet another DKP system.

#3
Everything wrote:Love the idea, Mind.
This system would benefit all without impeding on others. I'll bring it up to our Chief and see if he likes the idea as well. Hopefully it's not too difficult to implement and keep track of.

Thanks Everything! ;)
If you do decide to use it and get it working I would love to hear about it!
(And it'd be nice to add in a specific example to the OP for more clarity (if you guys are willing to share that info :D))
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Avatar art courtesy Angmar Reid
Lugh:
Mindreader - W - Pegasus
Photon - R - Chrysaor
CH on discord
CH database
Bitey's Guide
CrazyMae wrote:May your farts be sulfurous, personally offensive and unrelenting, only subsiding within my divine presence.

Re: Yet another DKP system.

#5
What’s the problem with just having a Decay?

I don’t see the inherent issue, most of the time who gets what is decided by who has the most points rather than if the person has sufficient points to ‘buy’ an item.

Basically, you may as well take away points if you’re going to make them worth less anyway. Also you have to consider the downside to not having a reduced point pool versus the value of the items.

You, in a way, want the value of the items banked to far exceed the total amount of points split among players. If it’s equal (or exceeds) then you can run into a situation where the bank runs out of items and there’s nothing for people to save points for, reducing a large motivation for bossing.

I run a DKP system on the Guildlaunch site that’s known as RapidRaid.
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“Brevity is the soul of wit.”

Re: Yet another DKP system.

#6
We don’t use decay. We just require clannies to attend at least 70 dl and or edl camping a month to qualify as active so they can bid for higher tier items. This is to make sure active members who help out at dl edl bosses are rewarded for their efforts helping other clannies to get dl and edl gears. Otherwise , one can be active but not helping others in the clan to get their dl and edl Armour and weapons when they have gotten theirs.

Re: Yet another DKP system.

#8
If we earned dkp, why should we be penalized because rl took us away from game for a little? I dont think this is an appropriate dkp system, because not really fair, not everyone chooses to go inactive... you should get and keep your dkp until it's gone i believe

Re: Yet another DKP system.

#9
tayilern wrote:If we earned dkp, why should we be penalized because rl took us away from game for a little? I dont think this is an appropriate dkp system, because not really fair, not everyone chooses to go inactive... you should get and keep your dkp until it's gone i believe


Depends if you believe the current active players should have the better gear over inactive players. You know we had multiple times where someone had insanely high dkp, took a break, but would bid on void and godly items in case they came back one day. And hardly any did.. So you have great gear sitting on toons that will never use them instead of toons that would be using them.
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

Re: Yet another DKP system.

#10
Zyz wrote:
tayilern wrote:If we earned dkp, why should we be penalized because rl took us away from game for a little? I dont think this is an appropriate dkp system, because not really fair, not everyone chooses to go inactive... you should get and keep your dkp until it's gone i believe


Depends if you believe the current active players should have the better gear over inactive players. You know we had multiple times where someone had insanely high dkp, took a break, but would bid on void and godly items in case they came back one day. And hardly any did.. So you have great gear sitting on toons that will never use them instead of toons that would be using them.


Of course that's an issue, I just dont think this is a proper way of handling it, at the end of the day, bosses will be killed regardless and new loot is always coming in. All we really can do is try to encourage people to be more open to others who may need gear more than us.

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