Celtic Heroes

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Re: Against the dominance

#51
isolatie wrote:So i am seeing that its getting heated and still not really good solution to Defeat the dominance,

So for all the people that say dominance is the key to make the server better, i will show you benefits if a server becomes open like epona.

- everyone can enjoy the game (most important one).

- gathering for bosses will be easier ( make a line or wechat or whatever app you want to use, a server app group, where you can call everyone on the server to help).

- better economics (drops are sellable and will Cause de-inflation, so lower lvls can lvl up way easier)

- competition can still be held ( go to arena with your whole clan ) (plan a special week with the whole server that sometimes in a year that it will be only clan groups at bosses)

Now the benefits of a dominant server.

- all drops will be usefull for clannies

As you can see not many benefits XD

Ps: sorry for my bad english xd


I agree that Epona has lots of positive things, especially the economy. But there's also something you're forgetting. People want to be rewarded for their hardwork, therefore find rolling for drops unfair. Best example I can give is from own experience and dates from a few years back when Lugh was like Epona. Hrung spawned and was called on Wechat, lots of people came. Hrung dropped a Shadow Shards Skull (at that time we only had one Void I believe, zero Shadows). We roll for it and a Mage that we had not seen in months wins it, while there were Mages actively killing all bosses at that time. Said Mage logs out with the Shadow Skull and is never seen again. You see my point here? People eventually become frustrated. Epona works well for casually playing people, no doubt.
Perkamentus, lv 230 Full Doch Gul Ice Mage
Avanor, lv 220 Rogue
Silvos, lv 191 Ranger

Retired Chieftain now Clansman of Pegasus, Lugh.

Re: Against the dominance

#52
Perky wrote:
isolatie wrote:So i am seeing that its getting heated and still not really good solution to Defeat the dominance,

So for all the people that say dominance is the key to make the server better, i will show you benefits if a server becomes open like epona.

- everyone can enjoy the game (most important one).

- gathering for bosses will be easier ( make a line or wechat or whatever app you want to use, a server app group, where you can call everyone on the server to help).

- better economics (drops are sellable and will Cause de-inflation, so lower lvls can lvl up way easier)

- competition can still be held ( go to arena with your whole clan ) (plan a special week with the whole server that sometimes in a year that it will be only clan groups at bosses)

Now the benefits of a dominant server.

- all drops will be usefull for clannies

As you can see not many benefits XD

Ps: sorry for my bad english xd


I agree that Epona has lots of positive things, especially the economy. But there's also something you're forgetting. People want to be rewarded for their hardwork, therefore find rolling for drops unfair. Best example I can give is from own experience and dates from a few years back when Lugh was like Epona. Hrung spawned and was called on Wechat, lots of people came. Hrung dropped a Shadow Shards Skull (at that time we only had one Void I believe, zero Shadows). We roll for it and a Mage that we had not seen in months wins it, while there were Mages actively killing all bosses at that time. Said Mage logs out with the Shadow Skull and is never seen again. You see my point here? People eventually become frustrated. Epona works well for casually playing people, no doubt.


I don’t play on Epona, but I’ll defend their system. The situation you explained is an anomaly and has happened in other distribution systems. In general the rolling system will work out, especially when coupled with an open market. The friends I have from epona that are hardcore are geared with more end game gear than the hardcore players on any other server.
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Re: Against the dominance

#54
Every thread on the forums turns into Epona evangelism.

But I think there’s an important point related to the original question. What is a clan?

Epona has a dominant ‘clan’ exactly like all the other servers. It is a clan alliance - a very open one and a successful one that makes many people happy. But it’s still a player built organisation. A clan isn’t the blue writing above one’s head. It’s a team of players working together with their own rules and culture.

Epona has a distribution system. Epona has formal rules. Epona has a culture and organisation for calling raids that exists on social media. These are the things that define a clan - not the blue labels in the game. Most traditional clans exist on social media outside the game, and many of them use multiple in game blue labels (feeder clans or sister clans).

Just as anyone can join the Epona alliance, pretty much anyone can join a traditional Dom clan elsewhere. Yes, you can be blacklisted from a dom clan, but you can be blacklisted from the Epona alliance too.

The rules for the Epona alliance are posted here in the forums. They are detailed, comprehensive and well written. But if you wanted to amend those rules, who do you speak to? How are they policed? Who runs the blacklist? In a traditional clan those things are usually very clear. A feature of the Eponian alliance is the leadership is opaque to outsiders and very decentralised. It is certainly effective.

The formal rules also state clearly that the Eponian alliance will isolate and break up any rival player organisation that opposes them:

Rule 2H of the official Epona rules:

“H) Epona holds the right to come together and blacklist a clan (tempararily disallow them from rolling at bosses) should evidence be brought to public attention that the particular clan in question is actively against the rules agreed upon by majority eponian vote. The objective is to break up the clan.”

This is all good - I applaud the level of organisation that’s gone into the Eponian system and rules - but it’s exactly what any traditional Dom clan does.

The only thing not in the “sacred book of Epona rules” is the constitutional process by which they are amended.

Epona has dominance: it has a huge and successful dominant player built organisation. It has some different features compared to the traditional clans - but far more in common with them than the forum evangelists claim.

Re: Against the dominance

#55
Taalia wrote:Every thread on the forums turns into Epona evangelism.

But I think there’s an important point related to the original question. What is a clan?

Epona has a dominant ‘clan’ exactly like all the other servers. It is a clan alliance - a very open one and a successful one that makes many people happy. But it’s still a player built organisation. A clan isn’t the blue writing above one’s head. It’s a team of players working together with their own rules and culture.

Epona has a distribution system. Epona has formal rules. Epona has a culture and organisation for calling raids that exists on social media. These are the things that define a clan - not the blue labels in the game. Most traditional clans exist on social media outside the game, and many of them use multiple in game blue labels (feeder clans or sister clans).

Just as anyone can join the Epona alliance, pretty much anyone can join a traditional Dom clan elsewhere. Yes, you can be blacklisted from a dom clan, but you can be blacklisted from the Epona alliance too.

The rules for the Epona alliance are posted here in the forums. They are detailed, comprehensive and well written. But if you wanted to amend those rules, who do you speak to? How are they policed? Who runs the blacklist? In a traditional clan those things are usually very clear. A feature of the Eponian alliance is the leadership is opaque to outsiders and very decentralised. It is certainly effective.

The formal rules also state clearly that the Eponian alliance will isolate and break up any rival player organisation that opposes them:

Rule 2H of the official Epona rules:

“H) Epona holds the right to come together and blacklist a clan (tempararily disallow them from rolling at bosses) should evidence be brought to public attention that the particular clan in question is actively against the rules agreed upon by majority eponian vote. The objective is to break up the clan.”

This is all good - I applaud the level of organisation that’s gone into the Eponian system and rules - but it’s exactly what any traditional Dom clan does.

The only thing not in the “sacred book of Epona rules” is the constitutional process by which they are amended.

Epona has dominance: it has a huge and successful dominant player built organisation. It has some different features compared to the traditional clans - but far more in common with them than the forum evangelists claim.

Exactly. On a dom clan server, you either join that dom clan and follow their rules or pretty much get left out of end game and those drops. On Epona, you either agree to alliance with the entire server and settle for the luck of rolling to experience end game and get drops, or you get left out. Exactly the same concept no matter where you go.

It's not OTM's or VR's fault. It's just the way the game is. And it's not up to the developers to find a way to fix it. It's not really broken.....it's just a different kind of game. If you don't want to be in that dom clan and you're not willing to compete with them, then maybe this game just isn't for you. Go play Order & Chaos where regular bosses are put in dungeons and the only open world bosses are the big world bosses that require tons to kill and everyone that hits the boss gets a drop.

Re: Against the dominance

#56
Dont get me wrong here, I am not hating on Epona. Just looking at the activity of the server shows that it works and it has so many positive sides. I was simply giving an example why people could not like rolling for drops, this was exactly the reason why Lugh's system changed. It became unfair in the eyes of the majority. We then had one clan that had the most firepower, that ruled as a dominant clan, while we had an alliance of several smaller clans that still rolled for the drops they got. Eventually those smaller clans lost players to the dominant clan because they thought they were being rewarded for their work there and didnt want their progress depent on a lucky dice.

This dominant clan lasted for years on Lugh. Internal problems eventually made the clan fall apart, resulting in a new clan.
Perkamentus, lv 230 Full Doch Gul Ice Mage
Avanor, lv 220 Rogue
Silvos, lv 191 Ranger

Retired Chieftain now Clansman of Pegasus, Lugh.

Re: Against the dominance

#58
Astralshift wrote:Want to know what’s unfair? How loot gets passed around in dom servers. That’s why Lugh is irrelevant now.


Dom clans don’t all have the same loot distribution methods. Each one is different, depending on what works for the clan and its members leaders. Some are more fair than others, of course. A DKP based system is arguably one of the more fair methods - people who help out more get more points, and therefore more gear, though there are several flaws with that method (biggest of which is that it encourages people to log for bosses, but doesn’t really reward people for being available the rest of the time).
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Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
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Re: Against the dominance

#59
Taalia wrote:Every thread on the forums turns into Epona evangelism.

But I think there’s an important point related to the original question. What is a clan?

Epona has a dominant ‘clan’ exactly like all the other servers. It is a clan alliance - a very open one and a successful one that makes many people happy. But it’s still a player built organisation. A clan isn’t the blue writing above one’s head. It’s a team of players working together with their own rules and culture.

Epona has a distribution system. Epona has formal rules. Epona has a culture and organisation for calling raids that exists on social media. These are the things that define a clan - not the blue labels in the game. Most traditional clans exist on social media outside the game, and many of them use multiple in game blue labels (feeder clans or sister clans).

Just as anyone can join the Epona alliance, pretty much anyone can join a traditional Dom clan elsewhere. Yes, you can be blacklisted from a dom clan, but you can be blacklisted from the Epona alliance too.

The rules for the Epona alliance are posted here in the forums. They are detailed, comprehensive and well written. But if you wanted to amend those rules, who do you speak to? How are they policed? Who runs the blacklist? In a traditional clan those things are usually very clear. A feature of the Eponian alliance is the leadership is opaque to outsiders and very decentralised. It is certainly effective.

The formal rules also state clearly that the Eponian alliance will isolate and break up any rival player organisation that opposes them:

Rule 2H of the official Epona rules:

“H) Epona holds the right to come together and blacklist a clan (tempararily disallow them from rolling at bosses) should evidence be brought to public attention that the particular clan in question is actively against the rules agreed upon by majority eponian vote. The objective is to break up the clan.”

This is all good - I applaud the level of organisation that’s gone into the Eponian system and rules - but it’s exactly what any traditional Dom clan does.

The only thing not in the “sacred book of Epona rules” is the constitutional process by which they are amended.

Epona has dominance: it has a huge and successful dominant player built organisation. It has some different features compared to the traditional clans - but far more in common with them than the forum evangelists claim.



Only problem with that rule is it goes directly against the ToS. If a player or players knowingly disrupts another players gaming experience, that can be cause for being banned.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...having server rules really does no good at letting players know how the server works. One thing that the developers could do is to give a brief description of each server before you pick the server before people invest time and/or money.
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

Re: Against the dominance

#60
Astralshift wrote:Want to know what’s unfair? How loot gets passed around in dom servers. That’s why Lugh is irrelevant now.


Most dominant clan servers run DKP which is completely fair and unbiased. Now if it's done by a loot council, then yes, it could be unfair as it could end up in favoritism.
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

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