Celtic Heroes

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Re: Clan Owned Gear

#81
LadyNymeria wrote:
Soccer wrote:
Shivahh wrote:
Killing a boss and storing it does not have any deleterious effects whatsoever, saving it for future use, future clannies, alts or the drop being absolutely useless is whats happening.
Killing a boss alone is another story but group efforts are different especially in a clan, and i see these all these “trash drops” as a trophy of achievements throughout the years.
You’re hoarding is defining something much darker than what its intended to actually be.


Man that's rich. Justifying hoarding by claiming it represents your achievement. Lol youre one funny guy



It doesn't need justified.

We earned it and if we want to hoard it away from the rest of the server then we will.


And on another point, love how you think people can't have the sense of ownership for stuff they work towards and yet generals can feel free to hoard when they feel like it cause they "earned" the drops. Hilarious

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#82
Soccer wrote:
LadyNymeria wrote:
Soccer wrote:
Man that's rich. Justifying hoarding by claiming it represents your achievement. Lol youre one funny guy



It doesn't need justified.

We earned it and if we want to hoard it away from the rest of the server then we will.


And on another point, love how you think people can't have the sense of ownership for stuff they work towards and yet generals can feel free to hoard when they feel like it cause they "earned" the drops. Hilarious


You're mistaken: the clan as a whole is hoarding from the rest of the server. Rest assured the clan - not only the leaders - are all in agreement that the gear isn't to be sold in an open market.

We don't hoard from our own members.

This thread was originally about "gear ownership" once someone wins a drop .. not clan banks.

But what's Hilarious is that this triggers so many people that refuse to join clans but think they should still be able to have access to gear that other people spend time/effort/money on achieving through the years.

The Majority of people that make up successful end game clans are like minded individuals who all agree on specific rules to progress as a whole. If the vast majority didn't agree the clan wouldn't survive.

It's not for the clan to cater to rest of the server.

It's also not up to new people to come in and decide that they don't like a rule and they shouldn't have to follow it. Rest assured if majority of a clan felt that the gear should be allowed to be sold off then then the clan would either have to change their rules to keep members happy or the clan would probably end up splitting up. Otherwise a clan isn't going to change something that works just because a few people don't like it ( People who more than likely asked to join knowing the rules in advance).
LadyNymeria
Level 230+ Rogue
General of Ascension
LadysHeart Level 220+ Druid
Level 220+ Ice Mage Valyria
Heartsbane 220+ Warrior
Level 220+ Ranger Sweet Tansy
Dreamfyre Level 220+ Lure Mage
190 Locker Rogue Catspaw


Danu

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#83
LadyNymeria wrote:
Soccer wrote:
LadyNymeria wrote:

It doesn't need justified.

We earned it and if we want to hoard it away from the rest of the server then we will.


And on another point, love how you think people can't have the sense of ownership for stuff they work towards and yet generals can feel free to hoard when they feel like it cause they "earned" the drops. Hilarious


You're mistaken: the clan as a whole is hoarding from the rest of the server. Rest assured the clan - not only the leaders - are all all in agreement that the gear isn't to be sold in an open market.

We don't hoard from our own members.

This thread was originally about "gear ownership" once someone wins a drop .. not clan banks.

But what's Hilarious is that this triggers so many people that refuse to join clans but think they should still be able to have access to gear that other people spend time/effort/money on achieving through the years.

The Majority of people that make up successful end game clans are like minded individuals who all agree on specific rules to progress as a whole. If the vast majority didn't agree the clan wouldn't survive.

It's not for the clan to cater to rest of the server.

It's also not up to new people to come in and decide that they don't like a rule and they shouldn't have to follow it. Rest assured if majority of a clan felt that the gear should be allowed to be sold off then then the clan would either have to change their rules to keep members happy or the clan would probably end up splitting up. Otherwise a clan isn't going to change something that works just because a few people don't like it ( People who more than likely asked to join knowing the rules in advance).


Oh yeah for sure, everyone in the clan has equal ownership to gear. That's why every clan that's fallen apart had seen its gear distributed equally to all its members. /Sarcasm

As much as you may believe or want to make others believe, all items in banks are at the disposal of general and only generals. Anyone who says otherwise is either being decietful or is delusional themselves.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#84
Soccer wrote:
LadyNymeria wrote:
Soccer wrote:
And on another point, love how you think people can't have the sense of ownership for stuff they work towards and yet generals can feel free to hoard when they feel like it cause they "earned" the drops. Hilarious


You're mistaken: the clan as a whole is hoarding from the rest of the server. Rest assured the clan - not only the leaders - are all all in agreement that the gear isn't to be sold in an open market.

We don't hoard from our own members.

This thread was originally about "gear ownership" once someone wins a drop .. not clan banks.

But what's Hilarious is that this triggers so many people that refuse to join clans but think they should still be able to have access to gear that other people spend time/effort/money on achieving through the years.

The Majority of people that make up successful end game clans are like minded individuals who all agree on specific rules to progress as a whole. If the vast majority didn't agree the clan wouldn't survive.

It's not for the clan to cater to rest of the server.

It's also not up to new people to come in and decide that they don't like a rule and they shouldn't have to follow it. Rest assured if majority of a clan felt that the gear should be allowed to be sold off then then the clan would either have to change their rules to keep members happy or the clan would probably end up splitting up. Otherwise a clan isn't going to change something that works just because a few people don't like it ( People who more than likely asked to join knowing the rules in advance).


Oh yeah for sure, everyone in the clan has equal ownership to gear. That's why every clan that's fallen apart had seen its gear distributed equally to all its members. /Sarcasm

As much as you may believe or want to make others believe, all items in banks are at the disposal of general and only generals. Anyone who says otherwise is either being decietful or is delusional themselves.


Our clan bank has never fallen.

We've had several changes of leadership over the years .. even changed a banner when the third chief went missing. Some rage quit and have turned banks over to other leaders. One bank has existed longer than I have played with gear in it before I even started... and I've been the main banker for my clan for six years and the foundation of my clan has existed for at least 7 years. Maybe 8.

Don't mistake corrupted clans for all clans.
LadyNymeria
Level 230+ Rogue
General of Ascension
LadysHeart Level 220+ Druid
Level 220+ Ice Mage Valyria
Heartsbane 220+ Warrior
Level 220+ Ranger Sweet Tansy
Dreamfyre Level 220+ Lure Mage
190 Locker Rogue Catspaw


Danu

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#85
LadyNymeria wrote:
Soccer wrote:
LadyNymeria wrote:

It doesn't need justified.

We earned it and if we want to hoard it away from the rest of the server then we will.


And on another point, love how you think people can't have the sense of ownership for stuff they work towards and yet generals can feel free to hoard when they feel like it cause they "earned" the drops. Hilarious


You're mistaken: the clan as a whole is hoarding from the rest of the server. Rest assured the clan - not only the leaders - are all in agreement that the gear isn't to be sold in an open market.

We don't hoard from our own members.

This thread was originally about "gear ownership" once someone wins a drop .. not clan banks.

But what's Hilarious is that this triggers so many people that refuse to join clans but think they should still be able to have access to gear that other people spend time/effort/money on achieving through the years.

The Majority of people that make up successful end game clans are like minded individuals who all agree on specific rules to progress as a whole. If the vast majority didn't agree the clan wouldn't survive.

It's not for the clan to cater to rest of the server.

It's also not up to new people to come in and decide that they don't like a rule and they shouldn't have to follow it. Rest assured if majority of a clan felt that the gear should be allowed to be sold off then then the clan would either have to change their rules to keep members happy or the clan would probably end up splitting up. Otherwise a clan isn't going to change something that works just because a few people don't like it ( People who more than likely asked to join knowing the rules in advance).


You cannot claim that the majority in the clan are like minded people. I know for a fact on my server, like 40 percent of people on the Dom clan dislike it there. They are there simply to have access to eg bosses. Unless by majority you mean just above 60 percent, which it quite low for someone thinking that their members are happy in the clan.

You don't need a majority to question whether you need to effect changes. You shouldn't be asking yourself are enough people happy, it should be asking are the people unhappy very few (not necessarily you, just generally). You just need a large enough number. However the way the game is set up, those who are unhappy cannot simply leave the clan and form a new one. Even a small difference in numbers is greatly amplified by the Dom clans resources and simply being set up for so long. Also, people have a tendency to play things safe. Many would not want to risk leaving, failing and not being able to return (not to the Dom clan but to eg gear and bosses which happen to be in the Dom clan). Just because someone in the Dom clan it doesn't mean they like it there.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#86
LadyNymeria wrote:
Soccer wrote:
LadyNymeria wrote:
You're mistaken: the clan as a whole is hoarding from the rest of the server. Rest assured the clan - not only the leaders - are all all in agreement that the gear isn't to be sold in an open market.

We don't hoard from our own members.

This thread was originally about "gear ownership" once someone wins a drop .. not clan banks.

But what's Hilarious is that this triggers so many people that refuse to join clans but think they should still be able to have access to gear that other people spend time/effort/money on achieving through the years.

The Majority of people that make up successful end game clans are like minded individuals who all agree on specific rules to progress as a whole. If the vast majority didn't agree the clan wouldn't survive.

It's not for the clan to cater to rest of the server.

It's also not up to new people to come in and decide that they don't like a rule and they shouldn't have to follow it. Rest assured if majority of a clan felt that the gear should be allowed to be sold off then then the clan would either have to change their rules to keep members happy or the clan would probably end up splitting up. Otherwise a clan isn't going to change something that works just because a few people don't like it ( People who more than likely asked to join knowing the rules in advance).


Oh yeah for sure, everyone in the clan has equal ownership to gear. That's why every clan that's fallen apart had seen its gear distributed equally to all its members. /Sarcasm

As much as you may believe or want to make others believe, all items in banks are at the disposal of general and only generals. Anyone who says otherwise is either being decietful or is delusional themselves.


Our clan bank has never fallen.

We've had several changes of leadership over the years .. even changed a banner when the third chief went missing. Some rage quit and have turned banks over to other leaders. One bank has existed longer than I have played with gear in it before I even started... and I've been the main banker for my clan for six years and the foundation of my clan has existed for at least 7 years. Maybe 8.

Don't mistake corrupted clans for all clans.


It doesn't matter if your clan has fallen or not. The fact remains if it does fall, there would nothing to protect the non generals from the powers unique to the generals

Edit: basically your word that the generals would never conduct any such behaviour is not enough to ensure itll never happen. Just because somethings lasts so long, it doesn't mean it immune to failure. One could even argue that it means it's more due to fail, which ofc would be unfounded, just as your argument is

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#87
Soccer wrote:
LadyNymeria wrote:
Soccer wrote:
Oh yeah for sure, everyone in the clan has equal ownership to gear. That's why every clan that's fallen apart had seen its gear distributed equally to all its members. /Sarcasm

As much as you may believe or want to make others believe, all items in banks are at the disposal of general and only generals. Anyone who says otherwise is either being decietful or is delusional themselves.


Our clan bank has never fallen.

We've had several changes of leadership over the years .. even changed a banner when the third chief went missing. Some rage quit and have turned banks over to other leaders. One bank has existed longer than I have played with gear in it before I even started... and I've been the main banker for my clan for six years and the foundation of my clan has existed for at least 7 years. Maybe 8.

Don't mistake corrupted clans for all clans.



It doesn't matter if your clan has fallen or not. The fact remains if it does fall, there would nothing to protect the non generals from the powers unique to the generals


Once a clan disbands there's simply noway to sell or distribute fairly anyway so idk what's the point of the argument because of course the one that holds the access can do as they see fit. Non corrupt leaders should at least have a discussion about this before a clan disbands with their members. Perhaps pass the items over to the next clan that majority goes too would be the best solution.

Unless the general hijacks banks out of nowhere then that's different .

You're just bringing up worst case situations at this point in your prejudice against clans and it's off topic from what the thread intended.
LadyNymeria
Level 230+ Rogue
General of Ascension
LadysHeart Level 220+ Druid
Level 220+ Ice Mage Valyria
Heartsbane 220+ Warrior
Level 220+ Ranger Sweet Tansy
Dreamfyre Level 220+ Lure Mage
190 Locker Rogue Catspaw


Danu

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#88
LadyNymeria wrote:
Soccer wrote:
LadyNymeria wrote:
Our clan bank has never fallen.

We've had several changes of leadership over the years .. even changed a banner when the third chief went missing. Some rage quit and have turned banks over to other leaders. One bank has existed longer than I have played with gear in it before I even started... and I've been the main banker for my clan for six years and the foundation of my clan has existed for at least 7 years. Maybe 8.

Don't mistake corrupted clans for all clans.



It doesn't matter if your clan has fallen or not. The fact remains if it does fall, there would nothing to protect the non generals from the powers unique to the generals


Once a clan disbands there's simply noway to sell or distribute fairly anyway so idk what's the point of the argument because of course the one that holds the access can do as they see fit. Non corrupt leaders should at least have a discussion about this before a clan disbands with their members. Perhaps pass the items over to the next clan that majority goes too would be the best solution.

Unless the general hijacks banks out of nowhere then that's different .

You're just bringing up worst case situations at this point in your prejudice against clans and it's off topic from what the thread intended.


Exactly! Most reasons for a clan breakup would result in the unfair distribution of items to clan generals (those who have access to banks as you plainly put it). Thank you for admitting that.

You cannot simply discount such a possibility because you don't have enough foresight to appreciate how things can go wrong even when everyone is trying to make things right.

How can you tell your clanmates to their faces that their gear is not theirs after all the time and effort they put in and then say in the case of a breakup of any kind, it is ok to accept that there would be unfair distribution of gear because it'd be too hard to distribute it fairly and that people with bank access would ultimately have final say on bank content?

So yes, this very much does tie in with the OP.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#89
Soccer wrote:
LadyNymeria wrote:
Soccer wrote:

It doesn't matter if your clan has fallen or not. The fact remains if it does fall, there would nothing to protect the non generals from the powers unique to the generals


Once a clan disbands there's simply noway to sell or distribute fairly anyway so idk what's the point of the argument because of course the one that holds the access can do as they see fit. Non corrupt leaders should at least have a discussion about this before a clan disbands with their members. Perhaps pass the items over to the next clan that majority goes too would be the best solution.

Unless the general hijacks banks out of nowhere then that's different .

You're just bringing up worst case situations at this point in your prejudice against clans and it's off topic from what the thread intended.


Exactly! Most reasons for a clan breakup would result in the unfair distribution of items to clan generals (those who have access to banks as you plainly put it). Thank you for admitting that.

You cannot simply discount such a possibility because you don't have enough foresight to appreciate how things can go wrong even when everyone is trying to make things right.

How can you tell your clanmates to their faces that their gear is not theirs after all the time and effort they put in and then say in the case of a breakup of any kind, it is ok to accept that there would be unfair distribution of gear because it'd be too hard to distribute it fairly and that people with bank access would ultimately have final say on bank content?

So yes, this very much does tie in with the OP.


Okay I see your point of view now.

This goes back to the agreement to trade in and up on gear and pass down to other members vs keeping it just to sit unused in an inventory. Bank gear on the other hand is gear no one wants or needs.

Clan members have been very vocal when people have sold off gear. We used to just tell them they can't win that gear again since they obviously didn't need it to begin with if they chose to sell.
But Ascension as a whole doesn't want to play with people who take items over others to sell off ... so we now kick them.

Keep in mind if they leave on their own we don't ask for it back but we just don't want to continue to gear people that will sell it off anyway. There's no point in wasting drops on people who aren't end game minded and just looking to make gold. They're not advancing clan and probably one of the people who don't really want to be in clan to begin with. ..It's just the option they have. It's our option not to keep them.
Last edited by LadyNymeria on Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
LadyNymeria
Level 230+ Rogue
General of Ascension
LadysHeart Level 220+ Druid
Level 220+ Ice Mage Valyria
Heartsbane 220+ Warrior
Level 220+ Ranger Sweet Tansy
Dreamfyre Level 220+ Lure Mage
190 Locker Rogue Catspaw


Danu

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#90
LadyNymeria wrote:
Soccer wrote:
LadyNymeria wrote:
Once a clan disbands there's simply noway to sell or distribute fairly anyway so idk what's the point of the argument because of course the one that holds the access can do as they see fit. Non corrupt leaders should at least have a discussion about this before a clan disbands with their members. Perhaps pass the items over to the next clan that majority goes too would be the best solution.

Unless the general hijacks banks out of nowhere then that's different .

You're just bringing up worst case situations at this point in your prejudice against clans and it's off topic from what the thread intended.


Exactly! Most reasons for a clan breakup would result in the unfair distribution of items to clan generals (those who have access to banks as you plainly put it). Thank you for admitting that.

You cannot simply discount such a possibility because you don't have enough foresight to appreciate how things can go wrong even when everyone is trying to make things right.

How can you tell your clanmates to their faces that their gear is not theirs after all the time and effort they put in and then say in the case of a breakup of any kind, it is ok to accept that there would be unfair distribution of gear because it'd be too hard to distribute it fairly and that people with bank access would ultimately have final say on bank content?

So yes, this very much does tie in with the OP.


Okay I see your point of view now.

This goes back to the agreement to trade in and up on gear and pass down to other members vs keeping it just to sit unused in an inventory. Bank gear on the other hand is gear no one wants or needs.

Clan members have been very vocal when people have sold off gear. We used to just tell them they can't win that gear again since they obviously didn't need it to begin with if they chose to sell.
But Ascension as a whole doesn't want to play with people who take items over others to sell off ... so we now kick them.

Keep in mind if they leave on their own their we don't ask for it back but we just don't want to continue to gear people that will sell it off anyway. There's no point in wasting drops on people who aren't end game minded and just looking to make gold. They're not advancing clan and probably one of the people who don't really want to be in clan to begin with. ..It's just the option they have. It's our option not to keep them.


Winning gear just to sell it and keeping gear once ones leaves are different scenarios.

The former can be argued to be a selfish act that I can see negativity affecting clans.

I am more on the latter camp. People who earned their gear but for whatever reason decide to leave and wish to keep their gear. Otherwise they are literally putting in effort for what I envision most clans will one day undergo: a complete breakdown that would see generals filling their pockets nicely. Letting people keep the gear when they leave and not going after them is the scenario most feel is fair considering the time and effort put in by those players. And if your clan falls under this umbrella, then your not entirely in the group of "all clan obtained clan gear belongs to the clan" which is the primary "target" of this thread imo

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