Celtic Heroes

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Re: A new side to Lugh

#11
Zyz wrote:I'm so confused on the open rolls. I'm a druid and come to hrung and a void touch skull drops and a rogue rolls and wins it. Am I correct in reading that's a possibility?

Yes that would be considered a "possibility", however, we would assume that a rogue would not be so selfish as to roll for such a prestigious item if he would have no use for it. It would be assumed as stated above that players would be so kind as to put people's needs above their desire for gold and would kindly pass on this item, or instead try to win for a high level druid friend or clanmate. I would imagine that if someone were to win a drop of this type and proceed to sell it for exorbitant amounts of gold the rest of the server would not be very happy with that player.

This is of course an inevitable flaw of a dicing system, and could be considered a drawback to the entire system. However, a major issue we had with class restricted rolling in the past was having a large clan of people carry a boss for a couple solo players, and then give those solo players a ridiculously high chance of winning a drop relative to the big clan, as shown in the example above:

Vulture wrote:For example:

35 ABC clan members killing Necro - 1 mage
1 solo player wishes to join - 1 mage

Imperial mage ring drops. Well basic math shows that even though the big clan definitely deserved the drop more than that little solo player, they both have a 50% chance of winning the drop. This was a common scenario in Alliance boss kills, and this lead to the great frustration. If we removed restrictions, or in other words had every player roll for ever drop(if they want to), then the big clan would have a 35x higher chance of winning the drop than the mage. This gives the solo player a chance of winning a drop, but encourages him to make/join a clan if he wants to get a better shot at winning things. This is fair simply because of the numbers, 35 toons = 35 rolls, 1 toon= 1 roll.


This method benefits clans over individuals, as the bigger clans can expect to have their work properly compensated. While this may be true, this would also mean that no matter your role, so long as you contributed to the boss fight you will have a equally proportional chance of winning a drop as everyone else. So every player can say that they worked hard and earned something for it at every encounter, even if just a chance. It would help bring people together into clans rather than antisocial beings in their own private clan, as this is an MMORPG of course.

I appreciate your concern and it was bound to be an issue brought up at some point. Just note that nothing will ever be perfect, and while this is the system we would like to establish it is obviously open to change. We would love to give this a shot as we know that doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result is simply wasted time and effort.

Lugh
  • Vulture - Level 220 Rogue
  • Venus - Level 195 Druid


123456 wrote:a druid can out dps a ranger fairly easily in a dps build. Adrith

1234567 wrote: Hrung ring+mordy spear > necro ring+edl dagger. Furyion

limbo

Re: A new side to Lugh

#12
Kk vulture, you've made an excellent plan. Now you just have to execute that plan, how are you going to get the members of Alliance to join this somewhat new system? This is as far as Phalanx got, we made a plan, but then there were simply not enough people outside of alliance willing to cooperate thus our plan failed and more people just gave up on Lugh and left or went inactive.
Level 210+ Warrior, Lugh

-You know a world transfer is legit when it is posted on the forums-

BOYMCLIR: AUTOPLAY HEROES, REVENGE OF BOB THE GOD

Re: A new side to Lugh

#13
GhostlyBlaze15 wrote:Kk vulture, you've made an excellent plan. Now you just have to execute that plan, how are you going to get the members of Alliance to join this somewhat new system? This is as far as Phalanx got, we made a plan, but then there were simply not enough people outside of alliance willing to cooperate thus our plan failed and more people just gave up on Lugh and left or went inactive.

"Executing" this plan is none of my concern. Our way of playing is already in effect. If players are unhappy with where they are they have the options to do whatever they please. I am simply presenting this new option. A new way to enjoy the game once again.

Lugh
  • Vulture - Level 220 Rogue
  • Venus - Level 195 Druid


123456 wrote:a druid can out dps a ranger fairly easily in a dps build. Adrith

1234567 wrote: Hrung ring+mordy spear > necro ring+edl dagger. Furyion

limbo

Re: A new side to Lugh

#14
Vulture wrote:
GhostlyBlaze15 wrote:Kk vulture, you've made an excellent plan. Now you just have to execute that plan, how are you going to get the members of Alliance to join this somewhat new system? This is as far as Phalanx got, we made a plan, but then there were simply not enough people outside of alliance willing to cooperate thus our plan failed and more people just gave up on Lugh and left or went inactive.

"Executing" this plan is none of my concern. Our way of playing is already in effect. If players are unhappy with where they are they have the options to do whatever they please. I am simply presenting this new option. A new way to enjoy the game once again.

It should be a concern, look at what happened to independent when they tried to restore Lugh. Look at the smaller clans that tried to restore Lugh, most of em failed. What makes you think your clan is gonna be better than what independent was? Lugh will never be the same, to much hatered going around and people are still mad at alliance. Look, I really like what your trying to do and I really hope your clan succeeds but it's gonna require a ton of work to get things up and running again like in the past, your gonna have to form relationships with enemies, and your gonna have to try to convince the members of alliance into following through with the plan because let's be honest, 90% of Lughs firepower is in Alliance with the other 10% being in clans like Phalanx, Lugh, Lost Legion, syndicate, and your clan.
Level 210+ Warrior, Lugh

-You know a world transfer is legit when it is posted on the forums-

BOYMCLIR: AUTOPLAY HEROES, REVENGE OF BOB THE GOD

Re: A new side to Lugh

#15
Mm I love the idea I love how you think about other clan more and propose a better way of dicing way better than before Although... Those rules you propose seem so strict but so I am hoping your policys/rules are somewhat more flexible and is only used when something goes out of hand and overall not not abused or over used But I Do love this whole idea in general and hope to see it happen 1 more thing you probably should have addressed ad that's what punishments would be for disobeying rules and what requirement your clan has or will have and if you will have a feeder clan in the future... ok I am done typing now +1

Re: A new side to Lugh

#18
Goodluck guys.

@GB15, Supreme doesn't have to be as strong as Independent was, or whatever clan is. Vulture is saying that every clan (Alliance also?) is allowed to join a boss fight with them, so Supreme doesn't have to be strong. Everyone can make a clan now with close friends and still be able to kill bosses, its just with other clans and there will be rolls at the end of the fight.

Correct me if I am wrong.
Perkamentus, lv 230 Full Doch Gul Ice Mage
Avanor, lv 220 Rogue
Silvos, lv 191 Ranger

Retired Chieftain now Clansman of Pegasus, Lugh.

Re: A new side to Lugh

#19
Vulture wrote: Imperial mage ring drops. Well basic math shows that even though the big clan definitely deserved the drop more than that little solo player, they both have a 50% chance of winning the drop. This was a common scenario in Alliance boss kills, and this lead to the great frustration. If we removed restrictions, or in other words had every player roll for ever drop(if they want to), then the big clan would have a 35x higher chance of winning the drop than the mage. This gives the solo player a chance of winning a drop, but encourages him to make/join a clan if he wants to get a better shot at winning things. This is fair simply because of the numbers, 35 toons = 35 rolls, 1 toon= 1 roll. Think I beat this one dead.


so if ciccio from ancients dices, pibe from syndicate, o8o from revolughtion, fiona from hobbnobbers, then they will be just formality to make it look like clans are sharing bosses together but in fact they will get nothing?. and the class rolling for lugh which has been set since years will be flushed to the drain, and we will damage the good old rule of class dicing, which requires voting on by the old players who got bullied out of lugh, while none of them commented on your post except for pibe. then they will have to ditch their old clans in order to get a drop join a new big clan. so goodbye ancients syndicate and hobbnobers for the sake of items. not going to happen simply because if those players were interested in items over people, they would be in a dominant clan by now. but they chose people over items. because people are always more important.

this looks like some attempt to change the name of alliance or make alliance number #2 in lugh. not the first attempt.

basically every now and then we get a clan in lugh who decides to recruit a few high levels, then their ego inflates as much as the main dominant clan's ego, and they end up excluding everyone outside their clan. we have seen it happen with clans independent and phalanx. the moment they grew a little stronger, they made their own private wechat boss call groups and excluded all the other clans, because they want to gear their clannies first. we go back to the same problem. small clans or clanless people are still excluded, which is an indirect ban, a slow death to make them get bored from not being invited nowhere, then quit.

this post also looks like an advertisement to attract more people to your clan, in hopes of going dominant perhaps on the long run. but maybe the difference is that your clan is willing to accept more people in lugh. while the current dominant clan was choosing people based on some irrational factors.

before alliance went dominant they gave me their word that they will never do that. but the moment they became strong they did that. they seduced recruits by showing a friendly sign on their doors, until they decided to take over. using people in the tower first floors when tower map came out. until their main tank leveled enough it was okay to get rid of callator because they no longer needed his services.
what makes us believe that your clan will not do the same? that after you recruit enough people with friendly inclusion offers, that you will not do bosses in secret and stop calling people, when it grows big.

i have seen my own friends who are much closer to me than you to me, decide at some point to exclude people. after that they were fighting for old lugh. they ended up only calling their clan, and they eventually decided to ban everyone outside. on the pretense of no trust and calling people dominant spies, then later on gearing priority.

how are you any different to gain trust in lugh?
1- your non class dicing is not going to bring back any of the people whom we lost in lugh. i explained why.
2- your generals who made clan supreme have scammed 20 million gold+ this very month alone! they used the same predictable method on a few players who told me their stories. and their methods have to do ALL ABOUT SURPRISE aka promising a person something then sccrew him up completely the last minute. pretty much predicts how your clan path might go, don't you think?


your proposition did not solve the lock battles trauma which more than a hundred high levels who quit are suffering from. first you have a dominant clan who will terrorize any old player who decides to return, while we know so well how much they hate this kind of nonsense, and are still waiting for us to fix the dominance *** in order to come back to their home lugh. your proposition does not only fail to fix the terror of lock battles, but it also attempts to damage lugh side with your non class dicing suggestion. meaning, an attempt to go dominant over the non-dominant remaining part. we barely can manage to deal with the terror by the dominant clan for the time being, but now we have a new type of terror that will exclude the lugh side too, which is supposed to be the safe side. that's like an invasive army forgetting to invade one last spot and deciding to go over there when they finally remember. do you understand the problem, vulture?

now i admire your good will to include the helpless the clanless and the small clans, to bring back old lugh, i appreciate that you posted this, don't get me wrong, but we are working here on making this server friendly enough and peaceful and welcoming enough so that the dozens of players who quit stop being too terrified from coming back. every time one of them decides to come visit us and check on us, they see they are still excluded by the dominant clan, that they are not allowed to group or camp something as low level as sreng, they tell me "this game is still dull, i will be back to check on it another time in the future when problems get fixed".

if we want to make this server like old lugh the players should not hear about dominance but we have not dealt with this issue yet on a serious level. the new xfers have not even met the players who quit, that's why have no emotional attachment to them, and no interest in bringing back a person whom they don't even know. xfers are like mercenaries with no roots to a home which helps them act colder and not emotionally melt fast i guess, except to the faces they are used to. but this is why it's not their cause. new players too, but maybe some of them got so used to seeing us getting oppressed by them every day, that yes some might agree on your idea, to stop oppressing us. if we have quit it would probably have been easier for their consciousness but we are there in their faces every day watching them take all the bosses. no matter how cold and tough they act, surely we have touched the hearts of a few people like lilo and deez (bless them) and we are hoping that alliance learn from this couple.
their decision to embrace us kinda brought us tears they are slowly becoming my heroes. since usually it is much more easier to join a dominant clan than decide to leave it. only a foolish person with a big heart would let go on fame and items. the small difference with you is that you did not start helping us yet but you are still busy with the technicalities of drop distribution.


oh and one more thing; you are coming with this as something new. except for the classless dicing suggestion, the resilient ones among us who decided to stay in lugh after that dominance happened, we are still abiding by the old rules of lugh, with slight minor changes like making gearing lists at times when needed. your suggestion does not only have a problem with deforming the old class rule, but also we are not very strict about gearing only hardcore active players, since a lot of people cannot log every day and that's not a sin, really. i'm personally interested in gearing all the people even a clannie who only likes buying/selling items instead of heavily bossing every day. you can say it's the same (and even less grave) than your gearing a scammer clanmate.


if the current dominant clan played it well, they should have kept playing with all the clans, without having to troll outside 95% of lugh population, or even making 95% of their clannies quit, their silent protest. there was no need to choose people, all the people are awesome, you just have to bother sit and talk to them, then see their beauty.

dominance is never really a clan tag like people think. in my personal opinion, the true meaning of dominance, would be when it embraces and encompasses everything, enough to stop seeing it, or noticing it. take it like feminism for example, if all the people stopped beating their wives or oppressing women etc, then you don't have to ever use the word feminism, because it has achieved its goal enough that, it disappeared. not because it failed. but this is a mature type of dominance which we as humans i'm not really sure we have arrived to absorb yet. your cat can basically dominate all the space of your bed out of being terribly cute, not by jumping at you and trying to murder you. this is why LOVE most of the time rules. we roam and roam with our equations then we often find ourselves saved/solved by love, simply. embracing all, but when we start being picky and grouchy and selective we fail faster.

please allow me to offer my suggestion to solve for this current problem in lugh. the current dominant clan lets go completely on dominance, after that it has proven an obvious error with random nonsensical equations, that led to everybody quitting including their own clannies. why choose a select few if all the people are wonderful!? that's what this game taught me. even that i find myself cussing at datura nonstop for acting superior over people and excluding them, i cannot do without hearing her "good morning elle". i am impressed with how axon managed drop distribution between his clannies trying to be fair as much as possible (even that there will always be unfairness), not in a stockholm syndrome manner impressiveness, but he showed he was able to manage a little and be good at that, which makes him a wonderful person. basically i can prove to you that every person on lugh (including the ones who quit) has some wonderful characteristics. even the most afk person among them, is so damn wonderful i just want to hug them. on the other hand he was unable to keep people and made almost everyone quit. willing to disregard that fact and just focus on his ability to be fair drops wise.
a few years ago a dkp system was suggested for all clans in lugh on the forum and it was neglected. i am almost sure that axon can try apply a system for all high levels on lugh, with his management skills, without having anything backfired. just simply put everyone in the same boss call groups, and let a select few (or just axon) decide on gearing lists and drops management. no matter clan tag. they will eventually all be loyal to lugh server as a whole and to the system of drops distribution. we have tested something similar in the summer and autumn of 2015, it worked really well, we had homogeneity between all the clans who were non-dominant.
if he could do it on one clan, he can do it on the server. it's really not many additions now that they all quit. i personally trust him to manage me. and it's not like all the people who quit will come back at once and ask for gear. every time someone comes back we all work together in helping the person, no matter their clan tag. it will impose overnights of work or exhaustion. this person can run his own clan, that person can run another, someone else can run his etc, but we are trusting a small committee to decide on taking care of all of us. there will be no reason for us to turn against each other. we can even sign agreement papers on that, a vow of friendship and loyalty. items do not really matter much anymore. we just want all the people to play together, have fun together, join boss raids together. some of us told me they miss hitting a few skills on snorri or mordris. that's what they are used to do. or camping together. without all looking like brainwashed sheep with only one clan tag over their heads. people who are different but enjoying their time and having fun together.

this thing called dominance that is pretty amateur and proved to hurt more than help, is way far from what we call competition. usually competing parties are smiling and happy. but this isn't even a fair ground for that. dominance in lugh was applied like shooting around a person's feet on the ground then expecting them to dance. nothing fun to watch about that. and that person whom you are oppressing is not really dancing. it's more like beating turin's horse and oh thanks lilo and deez for hugging the lughians.
when we had real competition in which the dps in the lock group gets the boss kill, i often found myself getting spammed with whispers by some random members of the lock group, to exit the group before mordris gets downed, just so they get their name in-scripted on the thing. which logically proves that competition was not really welcome. only exclusion was welcome in lugh. and we would be fooling ourselves if we call exclusion competition.
Lugh:
warrior 229
rogue 230
druid 228
ranger 228
mage 200

say no to dominant clans.

Re: A new side to Lugh

#20
I can tell you what's going to happen, if a druid not in the clan wins the void touch skull, then everyone is going to roll so that one of their druids get it. People are naturally protective of their own. And this would make it pointless for nonclanmates to join in on the kill knowing if they're not in the clan, their chances are slim at getting a drop.

I get where you're coming from. We did the same thing. And then clan mates started wondering why other clans were getting an equal shot at gear when there'd be so many of us and not many of other clans which led to thinking we don't need their help to kill things.
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

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