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Re: Sigh, no peace in Morrigan

#2
Just go wild west style.

I'm not sure if I consider killing a camper griefing. Maybe being a jerk when done on purpose but seeing as how the camper is just camping I'm not sure what you'd be griefing it on.
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

Re: Sigh, no peace in Morrigan

#3
Zyz wrote:Just go wild west style.

I'm not sure if I consider killing a camper griefing. Maybe being a jerk when done on purpose but seeing as how the camper is just camping I'm not sure what you'd be griefing it on.


For what other purpose is killing a camper for? Except to grief and be a jerk. It also forces campers to use idols or some of those without sigils to use restore pots in case the boss spawns and they're half health or they have resurrection curse if they die and already at a disadvantage.

Killing campers is griefing because it's not part of a lock battle. It is intentionally killing players outside of a pvp zone, as well as forcing them to use plat items unnecessarily. Anyone who thinks killing campers is fair play and not a dirty tactic has some questionable morals.
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There are two types of people in this world: Those who crave closure

A business is more profitable if they don't gouge and piss off customers.

Re: Sigh, no peace in Morrigan

#4
Aileron wrote:
Zyz wrote:Just go wild west style.

I'm not sure if I consider killing a camper griefing. Maybe being a jerk when done on purpose but seeing as how the camper is just camping I'm not sure what you'd be griefing it on.


For what other purpose is killing a camper for? Except to grief and be a jerk. It also forces campers to use idols or some of those without sigils to use restore pots in case the boss spawns and they're half health or they have resurrection curse if they die and already at a disadvantage.

Killing campers is griefing because it's not part of a lock battle. Anyone who thinks killing campers is fair play and not a dirty tactic has some questionable morals.


I guess. I don't see it as all that serious. I've never had the urge to kill a camping toon. I've had mine killed a few times. I just laugh it off and call em a jerk. I'm not sure if that qualifies someone as having questionable morals. But, hey, we're all entitled to our opinions.
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

Re: Sigh, no peace in Morrigan

#5
I don't know how many MMOs you have played, but griefing takes many forms. It's not just simply impeding some other clans raid.

And yes, I stand by my statement that anyone who feels griefing is okay, does have morality issues.
Image


There are two types of people in this world: Those who crave closure

A business is more profitable if they don't gouge and piss off customers.

Re: Sigh, no peace in Morrigan

#6
Aileron wrote:I don't know how many MMOs you have played, but griefing takes many forms. It's not just simply impeding some other clans raid.

And yes, I stand by my statement that anyone who feels griefing is okay, does have morality issues.


So you'd put them in the same boat as child abusers, child molesters, women beaters, and vegans? Those are the kinds of people I consider having morality issues.
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

Re: Sigh, no peace in Morrigan

#7
Zyz wrote:
Aileron wrote:I don't know how many MMOs you have played, but griefing takes many forms. It's not just simply impeding some other clans raid.

And yes, I stand by my statement that anyone who feels griefing is okay, does have morality issues.


So you'd put them in the same boat as child abusers, child molesters, women beaters, and vegans? Those are the kinds of people I consider having morality issues.


From certain philosophical standpoints, an immoral activity is an immoral activity. morality itself is a ideal in of itself, and is not subject to a quantification from this point of view. Something that is a moral good is good in of itself. something that is bad, is bad in of itself. Of course as a society, using the typical moral lens that society uses, we diversify and categorize evils, and place degrees on things, in a manner where it could be quantified. So to answer your question it would come down to how you view morality, is it an abstract ideal that we can strive to achieve, that cannot be quantified or justified? Or is morality a more complicated issue in which some actions are less evil than others, in which actions can fit on a scale and be quantified.

Looking at the act of griefing there are three parts, the motive or intention, the action (or the means), and the results (or the ends). In all of the above examples the intent or motive was to cause another harm, so if you view morality as analyzing intentions, then yes, all would be immoral, and all would be in the same boat, although you could go further and ask if all bad things are equally bad, and if you answer no to this, then you can separate them out by degree of badness. The means all vary, and if you believe morality stems from the actions itself, not the intention or the outcome, then it would vary on what the exact mean or action was as to whether or not the action was immoral, and from there comes the debate over whether or not morality can be quantified. Lastly would be that which looks at the outcome, but ignores the means and intentions, all the outcomes are a wide variety, for example you could try to grief a raid and fail miserably, according to the person that looks at outcomes, you did nothing wrong. And once again from here the second debate follows as to whether or not morality can be quantified, although typically a consequentialist or utilitarian approach to ethics would argue that morality is quantifiable.


So to answer your question, it depends, but On all three aspects of analysis I believe it is safe to say that all the above actions are immoral, so they would all fit in as being immoral actions, but as to whether or not morality is an absolute value, or a value that can be quantified, would determine if one action is worse than the other.
Gwydion - Voted Top Noob of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 226 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
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Hmmmmmmmm

Re: Sigh, no peace in Morrigan

#8
Zyz wrote:
Aileron wrote:I don't know how many MMOs you have played, but griefing takes many forms. It's not just simply impeding some other clans raid.

And yes, I stand by my statement that anyone who feels griefing is okay, does have morality issues.


So you'd put them in the same boat as child abusers, child molesters, women beaters, and vegans? Those are the kinds of people I consider having morality issues.


You consider vegans having morality issues? lol, what have they done to you that you lump them with criminals? What about vegetarians, are they one step behind from rapists? lmao

What is morality except distinction between good and bad. Being a jerk towards another person, be it in real life, or in a virtual video game, with a real person behind the toons, fall under the same principles of right and wrong. Just because we are anonymous in the internet doesn't entitle us to be a jerk towards a fellow person.
Image


There are two types of people in this world: Those who crave closure

A business is more profitable if they don't gouge and piss off customers.

Re: Sigh, no peace in Morrigan

#9
Aileron wrote:
Zyz wrote:
Aileron wrote:I don't know how many MMOs you have played, but griefing takes many forms. It's not just simply impeding some other clans raid.

And yes, I stand by my statement that anyone who feels griefing is okay, does have morality issues.


So you'd put them in the same boat as child abusers, child molesters, women beaters, and vegans? Those are the kinds of people I consider having morality issues.


You consider vegans having morality issues? lol, what have they done to you that you lump them with criminals? What about vegetarians, are they one step behind from rapists? lmao

What is morality except distinction between good and bad. Being a jerk towards another person, be it in real life, or in a virtual video game, with a real person behind the toons, fall under the same principles of right and wrong. Just because we are anonymous in the internet doesn't entitle us to be a jerk towards a fellow person.


OMG :lol: i didn't even see the vegan thing, maybe he was just being a little sarcastic :P
Gwydion - Voted Top Noob of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 226 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

Hmmmmmmmm

Re: Sigh, no peace in Morrigan

#10
bob the mage wrote:
Aileron wrote:
Zyz wrote:
So you'd put them in the same boat as child abusers, child molesters, women beaters, and vegans? Those are the kinds of people I consider having morality issues.


You consider vegans having morality issues? lol, what have they done to you that you lump them with criminals? What about vegetarians, are they one step behind from rapists? lmao

What is morality except distinction between good and bad. Being a jerk towards another person, be it in real life, or in a virtual video game, with a real person behind the toons, fall under the same principles of right and wrong. Just because we are anonymous in the internet doesn't entitle us to be a jerk towards a fellow person.


OMG :lol: i didn't even see the vegan thing, maybe he was just being a little sarcastic :P


Haha yeah. Those evil vegans!
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

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