Celtic Heroes

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Tit for tat...

#1
Blow for blow... Get hit, hit back harder...

Ethics in game often seem to work very similarly as in real life. Tit for tat, or maybe treat another how you would want to be treated, things like that. Good ethics is knowing which would be best for certain situations, and actually doing it. Alot of people seem to take the revenge aspect of it, to please their own carnal desire to get back, or because they think it is the more correct approach or whatever. If you have a pissy-contest between two people both with mindsets like this, it can sure end up in a big pile of hate and bitterness, which we wouldnt want in a game because the sole purpose of a game after all is to, in fact, be enjoyable.

If someone does a wrong to you it is the natural human lust to get back at them, and of course you feel justified about it because you gave them what they deserved. Ah, but I am sure that every human can testify that the outcome of this will be nothing but hatred and bitterness, and someone who lives their life (or plays their game) like that will be full of hatred and bitterness.

An example of this was just today when a clan that shall not be named interfered and caused the wipe of another clan on Mordris, because this clan apparently did the same to them on the previous Mordris (although I hear it was one or two troll drags by one or two individuals, as opposed to a clan effort sabotage). Whether the first clan did it to prevent the other clan from getting drops and just using the previous incident as an excuse to justify it (like some people think), or whether they did it just to "get back" at the previous lesser incident, what good will come out of it? To the first clan, you obviously do not like interference with your raids, so what makes you any better by doing the same under ANY circumstance? I bet if you asked the people that dragged on you, they would say that you have done the same in the past. You cant track down who did the "very first" mob drag. Anyone of any clan who continues it is to blame.

The clan that wiped on Mordris happened to be my clan. Contrary to what some people think, my clan's chief does not condone mob dragging or any of the sort, and is not driven by hate against the rival clan. Some people may think different individually, because each person has their different view of things which applies to BOTH clans, but my clan's leaders are not driven by hate nor do they condone mob dragging, and it is not what my clan is driven by. And unfortunately, all it may take is a single action from one to ruin a clan's reputation. I am not saying that my clan and everyone in it is perfect, but imperfections or even worse is no reason to continue this mob dragging bs battle.

This is to both clans involved in the above: just STOP this pissy hate battle. NOTHING will come out of it except hate, and will just make the game a miserable place for people, which defeats the purpose of the game. If you get a mob dragged on you, big *** deal, dont show your dominance or refinement by returning the favor, show it by still playing the game fair, and then no one should have any reason to interfere. Before you do anything realize that each payer is just a person behind a screen trying to enjoy a game just like you.

I am posting this because I want both clans involved today, and any clan that may rise tomorrow, not to create a hate-filled environment and ruin the fun for everyone. Even though the one clan did the action today, both sides are to blame, and I want both sides to just lighten up and realize that it is a GAME. Meant for enjoyment, and realizing that there is no reason that you should ruin that enjoyment for someone else in that game.

*drops mic*
Last edited by Rochoh2000 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Tit for tat...

#2
Rochoh2000 rolled 49 out of 100.
Rochoh2000 rolled 31 out of 100.

Yet another complaint from a clan who can't take what they dish out. Remember Havoc started it. Havoc got a clear shot on Mordris when you guys first killed it. We were there and we DID NOT interfere. We thought you would do the same when the time comes. I suppose that was just expecting too much. You have no one to blame but your own clannies for raid griefing.

Tit for Tat indeed. Get used to it, we can match Havoc on anything they do to us. Yep this is a game. if we were playing a shooting game and you shot one of my guys, I'd definitely shoot one of yours, and probably more. Havoc played it dirty, your hands aren't clean, let's not pretend they are.
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There are two types of people in this world: Those who crave closure

A business is more profitable if they don't gouge and piss off customers.

Re: Tit for tat...

#3
Aileron wrote:Rochoh2000 rolled 49 out of 100.
Rochoh2000 rolled 31 out of 100.

Yet another complaint from a clan who can't take what they dish out. Remember Havoc started it. Havoc got a clear shot on Mordris when you guys first killed it. We were there and we DID NOT interfere. We thought you would do the same when the time comes. I suppose that was just expecting too much. You have no one to blame but your own clannies for raid griefing.

Tit for Tat indeed. Get used to it, we can match Havoc on anything they do to us. This is a game. if we were playing a shooting game and you shot one of my guys, I'd definitely shoot one of yours, and probably more.

Aileron, you can always block me if you do not like to see me roll dice. I like having flirtatious dice contests with people, including some people in your clan ;)

First of all, I never said that you interfere with every raid, and I know you didnt interfere with our first Mordris raid, which I appreciate.

Again, you cant say Havoc started it, because mob dragging has been around since before havoc, and people in havoc have experienced it from Avalon long before havoc was made, so you really cant say definitively that anyone started it. I have a bigger point than "LOOK AVA DRAGGED MOBS" which I think you missed.

Aileron, I admit a couple of my clannies have been guilty of mob dragging, along with a couple of yours before this incident, no one is a virgin here. But our cheif DOES NOT want us to interfere, Seela doesnt work like that. We wont put together a clan effort to sabotage your next Mordris raid, regardless of what you may have done before.

This is where you missed my point entirely. It is not a matter of whether you can, but more of whether you should. The competition in this game comes from lock battles mainly. Of course you have the right to outlock us on however many bosses you like. Not sure what relevance your "anything havoc can do, we can match", because our cheif does not want to work on hatred, our clan is about enjoying the game and getting geared, even if its tough with a dominant clan.

I am not just talking to you, here. Answer this: what good does it do to do something just because it was done to you, knowing that it will cause hate and might provoke more? Its a matter of sense, not capability.

Re: Tit for tat...

#4
It just seemed wrong not seeing a couple of dice rolls whenever you're around.

Seela may not want you guys doing it but you guys do it nonetheless. What you guys have have always failed to realize, and this has been the same issue since Zombie, Triquetra and whatever clan got swallowed up by Havoc, is that every clan member is responsible for their clanmates behaviors. You are all under the same clan tag so every action of every member reflects upon that clan. Avalon is no saint, we have members that go out of line, and yes it reflects poorly upon Ava, but at least I don't hide under the pretense that the rest of Avalon members should be excluded from any payback that occurs. Please have some loyalty to your clanmates and stand by them whatever they do, wrong or right. You guys have a recruiting voting process. You guys CHOSE to associate yourselves with whoever you are playing with now, so it isn't our responsibility to play nice if you guys can't play nice. If you guys don't feel there's a repercussion to interfering in our raids, you all will simply keep doing it.
Image


There are two types of people in this world: Those who crave closure

A business is more profitable if they don't gouge and piss off customers.

Re: Tit for tat...

#5
Aileron wrote:It just seemed wrong not seeing a couple of dice rolls whenever you're around.


I guess theres no issue then ;)





I have never said that Havoc is perfect. I have in fact stated that I accept that Havoc is not perfect.

I have not excluded my post from Havoc, you can see above that I stated my post applies to both clans.

Aileron, you seem to be going along the lines that this mob dragging nonsense is wrong. And I agree with you. Yet you continue to do it. AGAIN you are assuming that Havoc started the mob dragging which is COMPLETELY false, you stated yourself that it has been an issue since ZA. Not excluding ourselves, you are no better to continue doing it. The problem is that returning the favor does nothing, and I mean nothing but hate, and you damn well know it. Yet you continue to do it. Mob dragging from clan Havoc has only been from a select few people who hate your clan, or maybe some individuals who make irrational choices out of anger, and that doesnt justify it but it is not a Havoc movement and we are trying to improve. But you are right when you "technically" arent wrong to return the favor. But the only thing that it has done, and will do will cause anger and escalated it, and made a bitter environment for everyone. Again, it isnt a matter of capability. It is sense.

Re: Tit for tat...

#6
Why do you still deny that Havoc started mob dragging on Mordris? You guys only started attempting killing her recently, and this is like only the 3rd or 4th time we fought for her. We certainly won't retaliate on Mordris if it happened on, say Snorri. we ain't that shallow nor vengeful. Looks like you guys are still mad about the Snorri fiasco months ago. We are talking raid level griefing here. I even warned your clan and your Havoc leaders last week to remember what your clan did and do not complain when we do it you next time. Is it really hard to understand that? Guess they forgot to inform you guys, because well...seems like raid griefing is no big deal to Havoc. You reap what you sow. Take it as a lesson and move on.
Image


There are two types of people in this world: Those who crave closure

A business is more profitable if they don't gouge and piss off customers.

Re: Tit for tat...

#7
Aileron wrote:Why do you still deny that Havoc started mob dragging on Mordris? You guys only started attempting killing her recently, and this is like only the 3rd or 4th time we fought for her. We certainly won't retaliate on Mordris if it happened on, say Snorri. we ain't that shallow nor vengeful. Looks like you guys are still mad about the Snorri fiasco months ago. We are talking raid level griefing here. I even warned your clan and your Havoc leaders last week to remember what your clan did and do not complain when we do it you next time. Is it really hard to understand that? Guess they forgot to inform you guys, because well...seems like raid griefing is no big deal to Havoc. You reap what you sow. Take it as a lesson and move on.


The issue here is griefing. Not Mordris alone, the issue is griefing. It doesnt matter the mob or boss. If you guys return the favor, you are no better.

Apparently, one of your clannies talked to one of mine, and apparently Avalon had a vote as to whether or not they should interfere with our first Mordris raid. My clanny responded with "Wow, you guys take a vote whether you should interfere?" and according to my clanny, yours responded with "Well you know, you dont like it when others mess with your stuff"

Unless the report is greatly twisted, this shows a much bigger problem here. That Avalon thinks they should have control over what happens in Morrigan, that nobody else is entitled to any boss that Ava has marked as theirs, just the way you speak here says that, like "I warned your clan" or "You should take payback as a clan" or "anything havoc can do, ava can match" or "take it as a lesson"

You are acting like you have the right to payback Havoc for whatever they have done that you may have interpreted as wrong. You seem you think Avalon should be greater than others as far as rights as privileges in the game. Its dirty, our hands arent clean etc when we drag mobs on you regardless of the reason, yet when you do the same or worse for no other reason than "they did the same", it is completely out of the wrong and justifiable.

Did you ever think, Aileron, that this might be the reason for previous clans' hate for you? (it is not right still, but provoking is not any better) If someone does so much as gaze upon your territory so to speak, you throw your power around to show them that this is your territory and yours only. At least this is how many, many players feel, alot of which quit because they had no hope of end game, because they were not good enough for ava and could not get in.

If this is the case, and players grief you because you seem tyrannical to them, how is that less justifiable than dragging mobs because someone did that to you? It aint your job, Aileron, to administer justice in Celtic Heroes, especially if it does nothing but cause hatred and bitterness.

None of the above is justification for my clan, just trying to show the conflicting points here.

After all this ranting, you still have not touched on my point. You have exhausted my routine dicing at camps, you have shown your point that members of Havoc were the first to interfere with Mordris raids, you have shown that you can give us payback, NONE of which was my CORE POINT.

Why, Aileron, should you perform actions in game for no other reason than payback, which accomplish nothing more than hatred and escalating problems in a game, that is supposed to be enjoyable for all?
Last edited by Rochoh2000 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Tit for tat...

#8
Ail shut up youre just a sore loser. There was one troll pulled so you messed up a whole mord raid but dragging and unfreezing priest, were you that mad? Dont answer that we all know the answer. That wasnt tit for tat at all, maybe you should read up on the words you keep using and understand their meaning, i never doubted your intelligence, but this is giving me some doubts

Re: Tit for tat...

#9
bdrules wrote:Ail shut up youre just a sore loser. There was one troll pulled so you messed up a whole mord raid but dragging and unfreezing priest, were you that mad? Dont answer that we all know the answer. That wasnt tit for tat at all, maybe you should read up on the words you keep using and understand their meaning, i never doubted your intelligence, but this is giving me some doubts

Thats what I thought. Only one or two trolls dragged by one of us, then that is equal to sabotaging our whole raid in Aileron's terms.

Again, I dont agree with dragging or anything. The difference here is that I openly admit my clans mistakes, because we sure as hell arent perfect, and regardless of anyone's personal hate we want to do better.

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